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Meta
Al, are 80% of Americans (including 60-70% of Democrats) nativists? Or is it just that we demand that others respect our laws and our culture? I know that you northeastern liberals are sheltered from the invasion of America, but we here in the West are not. We have to deal with the problem of illegal aliens, gangsters, and drugs coming up from Mexico. Here in Colorado, Mexican gangs and drugs (especially meth) are a real problem. In the border states, the problem is much worse. I don’t care whether this view is politically expedient or not. I’m not willing to sacrifice this country for the sake of building up ANY political party, including the Republican Party.
You might also note that a large number of Democrats heard our voices and voted against the amnesty bill. This is not about Democrats or Republicans, it’s about America.
napoleon – I’m approaching this purely from a political science perspective. What we’re facing now in terms of immigration is NOT unique to this time and place. Oh, I know that everything we had here that was broken before, is now broken because of them…
Look, I’m not about to attribute low wages and failing social enterprises to illegal immigrants. Since Reagan, these trends have been getting gradually worse, ultimately culminating in Katrina and the wage gap we see today.
If Republicans are going to demonize illegal immigrants, the ills they are responsible for within our society…then it’s time that Republicans also turned their attention towards the other factors that make these ‘ills’ a reality!
I think the right-wing is being honest when they talk about illegal immigrants, but they become increasingly full of shit when it’s time to start complaining about low wages, less education, more crime, while at the same time praising the memory of politicians who directly affected all three by telling us that government was evil.
Napoleon:
You live in Colorado? where abouts? I live in Denver.
I don’t notice any big gang problem here, maybe I am not going to the right areas.
If you oppose illegal immigration, then I guess we agree. As for your other points, I would like to point out that America’s economy has generally been better under conservative Presidents than under liberals. Examples of small-government or conservative Presidents: Thomas Jefferson, Teddy Roosevelt, Calvin Coolidge, Dwight Eisenhower, and Ronald Reagan (some might argue that even Bill Clinton and JFK should be included in this list). Examples of big-government Presidents: FDR, Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, and Jimmy Carter. The economy was very bad under all of those big-government Presidents. Since Ronald Reagan, it has generally been good.
Karl,
I’m in western Colorado. No, I won’t compare the gang problem in Colorado to California or the Mafia towns of Chicago, New York, Las Vegas, or New Orleans, but we do have a gang problem here. It’s the gangs who are smuggling the meth that is ruining so many lives. They account for much of, if not most of, the theft, murder, and assault over here, as well as in other parts of the state. I know that Denver is much the same way in some areas, but perhaps you don’t live in those areas.
Hey Napoleon:
Western Colorado? That is a great area, last winter I spent a couple of days snowboarding at Silverton mountain and then a couple of days in Durango, definitely an underrated area.
As far as crimes committed by illegals and who makes up gangs it is hard to find any reliable statistics, one thing that is interesting is that the majority of murders seem to be committed by spouses, and I think the same goes for assaults. As for drug trafficing it is likeley that the porous border allows a lot of drugs to cross in the same way that it allows a lot of illegal workers to cross. I wonder if a better solution to the problem is to make it easy for forigners to get work visas, so the people that would really stick out are the ones who are not working and don’t have visas. I guess I am arguing that it makes more sense to legalize it and regulate it, than pretend it can be completely stopped.
It seems like people object to immigrants, especially those from Mexico for many reasons, I can’t get that excited about the language issues as i don’t think it hurts anyone to be exposed to other languages; and by the second generation most immigrants learn english just like Italions or the polish immigrants of 75 years ago.
The job issue is interesting as for the most part the immigrants are accepting jobs that 30 years ago would have gone to union workers, like meat packing, manufacturing or construction.
Just some misc thoughts on the subject for some reason I can’t seem to get to worked up about it either way.
Take Care
Many of the illegal aliens “who come up here to do jobs Americans won’t do” (including construction jobs, which Americans WILL do) are gangsters who work by day. By night, they work their real “jobs,” peddling drugs and beating up indebted addicts and rival gang members.
Too many business owners like to hire illegal aliens for construction jobs and other jobs traditionally done by Americans because they don’t have to pay them as much as Americans. They’re more interested in making an extra buck than in doing what’s best for America.
I don’t object to people being exposed to other languages, but I do object when illegal aliens demand that we learn their language and culture instead of the other way around. If they want to come to this country, they can come and be Americans, but they cannot remain Mexican. I also object when they disrespect both our laws and culture. I also object when they come to America and go on welfare. A few of them come to this country and enlist in the military, though, and I don’t have a problem with that.
We need to seal the both our borders to block out not only illegal aliens, but terrorists as well. We cannot win the war on terror while the borders stand wide open for anyone to come in who wants to. After sealing the borders, we can talk about what to do with the illegals that are already here.
By the way, a lot of domestic violence over here is committed by illegal aliens. Many of them beat their wives, and others are sex offenders. That’s not to say that all of them are like that, but too many are. We don’t want or need them.
Work construction all day and then gang bang all night, almost have to admire the work ethic 🙂
If you call gang banging work.
Right…the 50 or so others just hang around when it’s not their turn. The gang-bang-e on the other hand…
Isn’t good to have a cheap workforce’ as we all know the money that businesses save, trickle down to the rest of us. Isn’t that the whole reason for keeping taxes low? Allowing open borders seems like one more way to help businesses and whatever is good for business is good for the country. Right??
I believe that America always comes first, and ideology second. Since illegal immigration harms America, I don’t care that it benefits business.
I think that if they were all citizens, the problem would sort itself out. They’d have the right to organize, stand up to exploitative employers, and have their tax dollars work for them. Plus, they’d constitute added blocs of voters, which means the politicians have more work to do than they did before.
That may or not be the best solution, but first we have to close the borders. Then we can talk about what to do with the immigrants who are already here.