Into the local library to complete some school assignments and send them in. Hiatus for any heavy stuff a few days, I have been working on some fiction I’ll be laying on you in a day or two. Hope everyone is well and that your sports teams aren’t turning you into the laughing stock of your respective neighborhoods. Yankees sprawl is a threat to my habitat…I’m in the planning phases of developing an aerosol spray that can take care of this problem.
But hey – the PATRIOTS on the other hand – aside from Branch not being on the field, this team looks downright deadly at the moment. Trench warfare will play heavily into our strategy for victory on both sides of the ball, with the opposition screaming for mercy before the 4th quarter most times.
My team is treating me well, but hey, I think I deserve it every so often.
Is your computer working fine?
I only have one thing to say about the Red Sox: “Go PATS!”
The end
A very interesting read over at TCS today.
“Excess partisanship in a time of war is very frustrating to the public. How can it be that essentially all Republican officials agree with the Bush Administration policies and procedures for monitoring phone conversations and essentially all Democrats disagree? Would a Democratic President really be following policies that are very different?”
More here:
“I am reminded of a neighborhood football game when I was in fourth grade, where all the neighborhood brainy kids were on one team, and the other team had Gary Bemis, my next-door neighbor who was big and tough. After Gary scored touchdowns the first five or six times he carried the ball, the parents declared the game over. My guess is that social scientists fighting Islamofascists would be like the brainy kids trying to stop Gary Bemis.
The elitist view is that we need to be more sensitive to other cultures and we must deal delicately with civilians whose hearts and minds we need to win over. I think that popular opinion is swinging toward the opposite conclusion.”
Is the public opinion turning against the elites? Certainly much discussion on could be made on that point alone. But the issue I see coming up again and again is that we, as a nation, are not taking to heart the fight we are in and going at it with kid gloves. Are we getting too soft to win this thing? Can we even agree as a nation that we are in a fight? I think that, as a nation, the fact we cannot get everyone to agree that a fight is needed is the biggest of our problems. Just my humble opinion.
The link to the article was not obvious in the last comment. Sorry I am still learning about these XHTML tages and how to use them.
The link is in the “TCS” above or HERE
Yeah, we’re in a fight we started back in the 50’s when we helped displace Iran’s leader to further BP’s interest in Iranian fields. Ahem, need I remind you that Iran was a democracy at that time? We helped to overthrow a democratically elected government in the 1950’s. Any surprise they are skeptical of our intentions?
Well then, take off your kid gloves and say exactly what you mean. You mean — we should kill more Islamic civilians. Right? Sure, you’ll kill a lot of Islamic jihadis, but you’ll also kill a lot of bystanders. That’s bullshit. It would be savage if a nation did that to us, and it’s savage that we would do that to another nation. You’re advocating for becoming the beast to kill the beast.
Is it bullshit? Really? What will happen if after you get a pull out now Democrat elected and the whole country (Iraq) falls to pieces and the terrorists (now emboldened) take over. Next Iran gets the big nuke and the long range
missiles from North Korea to deliver them. What will it be like then? How many lives will be lost if we have to go back, this time
with more force and power, not sparring any civilians like we did the first time around. No more precision guided
bombs or anything like that. What will be the cost then?
I know you do not believe that will happen with Islam being the religion of peace and all. But that is where you and I disagree.
They scare me. And they have only one thing in mind and it has nothing to do with Liberty or freedom and what this country stands for. It is religion their way and its the only way or die.
That is the argument. That is where we differ. You think the enemy is blown all out of proportion and I do not think we understand what we are truly facing. Leave Iraq and they will follow us home …
regardless of what happened back in 1950 or now. Have we lost the will to fight and do what it takes in this
country? The cost to finish the job now will be high and bloody and innocents will die. But what will be the cost if we do not finish the job
now and have to finish it later?
Read this quote from someone I admire:
““How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.
The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceasedto be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities – but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”
Winston Churchill
Yeah, we’re in a fight we started back in the 50’s when we helped displace Iran’s leader to further BP’s interest in Iranian fields.
I’m pretty sure Islam didn’t invade Europe and North Africa, destry Alexandria and occupy the Holy Land centuries ago because of what ever you think happened in the 50’s. Nothing that happened in the last 400 years is the reason Islam is mobilized for global domination. This demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of the entire global conflict.
The idea that you can give these guys jobs at 7-11 and they will abondon their religion is sheer folly. Islam is a religion of conquerors. No other religion is allowed to prosper. Women are property. Murder can be justified by many different and archaic rules. Islam is a beligerent bully who only knows death, slavery and subjugation. This is why Democrats have no idea how to combat terrorism or any other issue of national security.
You mean — we should kill more Islamic civilians. Right? Sure, you’ll kill a lot of Islamic jihadis, but you’ll also kill a lot of bystanders.
There is no difference between civilian and militant, they all work together. How can you be so oblivious to this? The children are look outs, curriers, and mules. The women provide food, shelter and children and the men are assassins and cutthroats.
The entire society is one huge war machine, they use their houses as armories and launch facilities, they dig tunnels from house to house. They elect terrorists to the government.
You have no clue what is really going on in the world and I can’t tell if you are just closing your eye and towing the party line in lock step or if you really don’t know what you are talking about. Believe me, Islam didn’t bring down the World Trade Center because BP was in Iran in 1950.
Interesting read:
Read this as a followup to the above comments.
I think we need to understand the enemy better than we do. Just saying …
Holy crap Ace nails it. You have got to read this.
Warning to all you lefties, anti-war and BDS (Bush Derangement Sufferers)
readers that lurk here you will not like the “Ace of Spades” web Blog. You have
been warned.
I can not believe the timing. Right on queue Ace!
Au contraire mon freir. I listen to Fox News and Bill O’Reilly every night while I’m worshipping Bush on my alter of freedom. I know exactly what’s going on in the world, and I’m very happy that they’ve finally found JonBenet’s murderer.
You guys believe that more war will make peace. I don’t believe that is the case. Those links really suck by the way. Not worthy of the bandwidth I wasted downloading the page.
I think I understand them just fine. They are people. They are businessmen, teachers, doctors, wives, husbands, children, plumbers, lawyers, etc. They have the same motivations and desires as most of us. They may on average be more devout in their religious practices.
The difference comes with economic conditions. Where things are bad you’ll find more recruits for the cause (any cause). Then of course you can recruit young men overseas who are looking for a meaning to their life. I can remember being 18 and how easily I could be persuaded. I still can be persuaded, but not so easily anymore. Are young urban gang members in the U.S. terrorists?
You’re pigeonholing over one billion people based on the radical views and actions of a few. If Muslims were as radical as you both say we would be fighting a much bigger war. Radical muslims hate me because they have bought into the generalizations about westerners. You’re doing the same thing with Muslims. Trying to radicalize your countrymen to fight a war that we might otherwise not want to fight. To date I’m still not convinced that it’s a worthy fight. I respect your right to fight. In fact I heard that the Marines are running short, here’s your opportunity to step up. Just don’t think you are fighting on my behalf. I’m doing just fine without the help. Thanks.
You have no clue what is really going on in the world
That was poorly worded and not what I meant to say.
You guys believe that more war will make peace.
No, it’s that peace needs to be the goal of both sides, it doesn’t work if one side wants peace and the other side wants to conquer. Poland wanted peace in 1939 but Germany didn’t and look what happened.
Islam is as much about peace as Ted Kennedy is about saving people from submerged vehicles. It’s not that more war will bring peace it’s that war is the only option we have. Diplomacy is a fools errand.
They have the same motivations and desires as most of us.
I’m not motivated to stone 12 year old retarded girls to death and I definitely don’t desire to force the world to live by my belief system. This is why I say many liberals don’t understand Islam, national defense or foreign policy at all.
They may on average be more devout in their religious practices.
There is the understatement of the year. Studies habve shown there there are no Iraqis, Lebanese or Saudis. There are Muslims who live in Iraq, muslims who live in Lebanon and Muslims who live in Saudi Arabia. Muslims are muslims first and their nationality second.
I am American first. This is a huge fundmental difference in our societies and people who wonder why British borm muslims are so radical. It’s because they aren’t british, they are Muslim.
Are young urban gang members in the U.S. terrorists?
Urban gang members don’t hijack airplanes for religious reasons.
You’re pigeonholing over one billion people based on the radical views and actions of a few
The few act on the extremism but most support it. Look at the U.S. there are 135,000 or so troops in Iraq but 350 million people in the U.S. so by your logic only a very small few are supporting the war in Iraq. We have taxes to pay for our military, they have “charities”. We contract with compnies to supply troops with MREs and fatigues, they have an army of women property to suply food and clothing.
Islamic extremism is acted upon by a few of the billion but most support those who act. They are regarded at martyrs and celebrated by millions of people at a time. Islam isn’t just a small lumber of teenagers filled with angst and too much time on their hands.
If Muslims were as radical as you both say we would be fighting a much bigger war. Radical muslims hate me because they have bought into the generalizations about westerners.
We are fighting a much bigger war, how many countries were involved in WW2 versus the WW3 that has already begun? Do you need a homicide bomber on your front porch to open your eyes to the reality of what is going on? May not be too far away.
Radical Muslims are radical because that is how the religion was designed 1,200 years ago. Nothing that has happened in the last 400 years can account for what is going on now, this is a brutality that is bred into Islam from the start.
Just don’t think you are fighting on my behalf. I’m doing just fine without the help. Thanks.
Time will tell.
Dear Captian_M
I respectfully disagree with your assumptions that I have pigeon holed anyone. I very recently worked with a person from the region and who is a devout Muslim. So devout he had special “Lunch”
arrangements to so he could attend afternoon prayers in the nearest Muslim place of worship. To say I or anyone or any group makes that kind of generalization is short sighted and just plain wrong.
He is a man of peace as are most Muslims … at least that is what I think. It is not those who I am talking about. It is not those who are fighting for their freedom in Iraq, and winning I might add but more on that later, that I am talking about.
Your reasoning is not unusual and not uncommon. I just do not agree with you. We are in a fight and there are many many people who want to see us dead and are more than willing to die to help the cause. Those are the people I am talking about. They wish to rule the world and force their religious beliefs down our throats. They want to remove our liberties and freedoms and
enforce their lifestyle on us but you and people who think like you (ie: people who think it is not worth fighting over) want to deny they even exist. Again I respectfully disagree. These are some of the most ruthless and fearless enemies we have ever faced. You see no enemy or not enough of a threat to fight a war over it. Again I disagree. I just hope that when it comes time to vote that
candidates that feel as you do, and there are plenty, do not get elected.
I wanted to enlist right out of High School and fly jets. It was my dream. I would love to be over there now defending our rights and the free Iraq’s rights. The Air Force did not and would not take me then for medical reasons and would not now I am sure (plus I am now too old I think
anyway, 46). Life does not always turn out as you plan. Lesson learned: It is good to have a backup plan in life!
The more later thingy now: Things in Iraq are not as bad as the biased media portrays them. I have made that point here before. This is just a small example of that fact. Do we understand the enemy the threat? Really? What if we are wrong? Do we really know the conditions over in Iraq and Afghanistan? If I only read the papers and watched the TV news I would pretty down about things as well, maybe even feel as you do. But in all respect I think that kind of thinking is wrong.
There is a good essay on the difference of people who think like you and those who think like me. Tribes is the name of the essay and is a good read but I will warn you it is long. But based on your response to my last links here you may not like it and the only reason I link it here is that their may be someone else who will who will stumble by and see it.
Have a great day!
Well, we’ve got one difference right off the bat. I consider myself a human first, an Alaskan second, and an American third.
Humans should be treated humanely regardless of their nationality. Nationalism causes almost as many wars as religion. Both are great tools for the powerful, but not so great for the low class.
And neither are the vast majority of Muslims. Every nation and cultural group has it’s wackos.
Thanks for the link Frodo. I read that tribes bit quite a while ago. I think the sheep/sheepdog analogy has some merit, but I think it’s a simplistic fairy-tale way of looking at the world. This view works great in an emergency first-responder scenario, but it doesn’t hold up to real world global politics and power struggles.
It’s nice to think that we are incorruptable and only interested in helping those who struggle for freedom, but our foreign policy doesn’t demonstrate that these are truly our goals.
Yes, I know. It feels good to finally feel like other people are as disgusted as I am with our actions. You probably feel OK with your tax dollars going towards collateral damage (and rape and murder in extreme cases). I’m disgusted by it, and disgusted that my kid will be paying taxes to cover the bill.
Give me a break already. This statement applies to any person who has taken on the role of an armed forces personnel for any nation (or cause). Military personnel generally want to see the enemy dead, and they are sworn to follow commands even if it leads to their death. Isn’t this the definition of a military?
I understand where you are coming from Frodo. I’m fairly surrounded by military folk. I respectfully disagree with you. If the war truly goes on as you and others say it will, then we are losers. And it will become even more apparent as time drags on.
However, if we shift course, and change our strategy and tactics in fighting this enemy we may still manage to pull off a victory that doesn’t involve killing thousands of innocents. The more innocents you kill today the more enemies you will face in the future.
If you’re going to call me dear, you’ll need to buy me a beer.
Sun Tzu and his art of war would say otherwise. I believe that he is right on. Fighting a war is a last drastic measure. He who wins a war without fighting is the true measure of a leader.
The Art of War Read it, it still applies.
These lessons were learned centuries ago, yet we choose to ignore them.
Sorry about the dear comment. It just seemed better, more polite than saying “Hey Idiot” or something else like that.
“Give me a break already. This statement applies to any person who has taken on the role of an armed forces personnel for any nation (or cause). Military personnel generally want to see the enemy dead, and they are sworn to follow commands even if it leads to their death. Isn’t this the definition of a military?”
Well if you want to say that all militaries are the same I guess that is true. But I find it hard to compare ours to theirs and say they are the same. That would be a slap in the face of our military and they deserve better. Let scompare an army that uses technology and precision guided bombs to limit the amount of innocent causlities to minimum to those whose expose anothers frredoms to kill as many as possible by blowing themselves and flying fully loaded planes into buildings? Good grief you can be serious.
Again it is the sheep sheepdog thing or grey and pink take your pick. We just see things differently. I still think you are wrong …
And speaking of beer … I need to skoot.
We\’re not turning on elites, unless the Republicans in favor of the Iraq War and all their think tank backers AREN\’T elite. I don\’t see how they couldn\’t be considered the elite as well.
Your hypothetical of Iraq getting long range nukes and cutting loose on the United States or Israel from a distance…earlier today I had a long conversation with someone in their 80s who I love talking to, listening to…it was actual fear I heard, that terrorists would be setting off nukes in major US cities, and your argument falls in line with that…if not, then I appologize…as I see it, this person, RThinker and yourself are the people I hear this from most often, and I end up thinking about it quite a bit each day.
I wouldn\’t come out and say to this person that their fears were unfounded, silly – – – it\’s a reality for a number of people living among us, that fear is the appropriate outlook and should dictate our actions abroad. Is that what you guys are saying? I\’m hearing that we need to take all of this seriously (65,000+ wounded from the Iraq War already), though the changes necessary to truly defeat our enemies here aren\’t part of the agenda.
Wouldn\’t you agree that to wage war against Iran, we\’d need at least a force as strong and equiped as we had when we entered Iraq? If not, then I\’d like to hear how we win the war without troops, as Iran is about four times the size of Iraq.
Newspaper headlines and personal accounts I\’ve heard from those who have served over there all seem to hone in on the fact that the military isn\’t what it once was, that equipment is being handed down rather than maintained permanently by the unit that will be using it…the age for enlistment has been raised, along with other criteria used priorly to weed out undesireables…
So if we\’re to go to war with Iran, I think the ground forces need to be reconstituted, reequpied and given some time to prepare for Iran in a way that wasn\’t done for Iraq. To do this one as close to 100% right as we can. The mistakes we made prior to and during our invasion of Iraq have been agreed upon by everyone (except Rumsfeld), and the key point I pick out first every time is that we didn\’t invade with enough troops to SECURE the country once the bombs were no longer falling all over the place.
So the force we have today is not capable of carrying out what an invasion of Iraq would require.
DRAFT TIME – – – – this is the reality as I see it. If we are to believe in this notion that our safety is in question, that a war or two must be fought to save our lives…then we must have the tools necessary to WIN. Right?
Right now it has to be obvious to everyone that if Iran looks 3+ years in like Iraq looks now, we might have wasted a lot of $$ and lives.
Good Captain, (No Beer needed for that right?)
I had to look this one up as I am not a studied master in the “Art of War”.
From Amazon.com
“The Art of War teaches leaders strategies to attain victory by:
Knowing when to stand up to an opponent, and when to back down.
Here is where we differ. You see this, backing down to the opponent, as the only solution to the problem. I do not. I see standing up to him as the only option.
How to be confident without being overly confident.
Considering the cost of the campaign before launching an attack.
Avoiding an opponent’s strengths and striking his weaknesses.”
Seems to be more about actual war than just using diplomacy which is the impression
I got from reading your post above.
I know it is not fair to condense the book in 4 points and I will try and give this one a read … but I have several I am involved with at the moment so it will be a while. That said the last 3 points there are certainly up for debate as much in war is not exact science and plans change almost from the first salvo that is fired.
But this war has taught us we no little especially with the enemy we are facing.
Yeah big deal I admit we made some mistakes. I know … I know what you are
thinking … why cant the President admit at least that.
I do not like war … more than you know. I hate it and it is a last resort … dead last. I remember watching CNN when we began to see this first of the
so called televised wars in Gulf War 1. I walked outside after putting the kids to bed fully aware that around the world at the very moment people were dying. People, fellow people of the earth, innocent and not so innocent. American and Muslims. Whites blacks and some others. Babies, mothers, fathers, wives and husbands. It still does not
make sense that man in all his wisdom still has to come down to this to settle
the differences. This next point is important. It is the lesser of the available evils and I pray
(yes I do pray for everyone even terrorists and you may be surprised how and
what I pray for) people who think like you learn that before it is too late. Sorry to go all gloom and doom on you but that is how I see it. I have given this
a lot of thought and resent anyone who insinuates I have not. I weighed all the checks and balances and I see no other way out. I do
believe what damage is done now will be easier than not doing the job now and waiting until later to do what must be done.
This enemy is that evil. They will follow us home and they already have.
Diplomacy will not work these few people who are in control and calling the shots.
The Sheep/Sheepdog fantasy world you refer to has more truth to it than anything I read in the papers and may be closer to the truth than you are willing to admit. I see what have been described in the words of the poet “Men too Gentle to live Among Wolves”. I ride to work with one every day. I am glad we have Sheepdogs and I am proud of the work they are doing. If you want to compare armies bring it on. I will hold up our guys
against the lunatic butchers that prey on innocents the world over. I will gladly compare an army that at least tries to fight within the
Geneva conventions while the so called martyrs who wave white flags of surrender
and then as our troops approach pull concealed weapons and shoot. This argument
is too easy to win as I could go on and on in this vein. I admit we malcontents and people who do bad things that
disgrace the US armed forces but compared to them I see no problem arguing in
our defense.
My beer is calling there is more I wanted to say …
Well, we’ve got one difference right off the bat. I consider myself a human first, an Alaskan second, and an American third.
Humanity is not a membership organization, we are all human so your consideration of yourself as human is redundant. Funny, though, how your Islamic cohorts believe that women are less human than men, being that they are property. You are viewing a Middle Eastern culture through American eyes and trying to assign our values to them.
And neither are the vast majority of Muslims. Every nation and cultural group has it’s wackos.
IT”S THEIR LEGAL SYSTEM!!! It’s the Sharia law that most Muslims want installed in their countries and our country. It is ingrained in the culture, legal system and society. Show your tits in Los Angeles, it’s indecent exposure, walk around without a full body shroud, it’s death.
These aren’t wackos, they are the police, judges, lawyers, politicians, doctors, engeneers and farmers. Please, explore their culture and laws more.
I’m disgusted by it, and disgusted that my kid will be paying taxes to cover the bill.
I would rather my daughter pay more taxes than to be the property of some religious nut job.
Give me a break already. This statement applies to any person who has taken on the role of an armed forces personnel for any nation (or cause).
You have completely missed the point. We are not the aggressors and being a military person who is ordered into action to defend the nation is completely different from a fanatic trying to subjugate a population. There is no moral equivilency or parity. We didn’t ask for 9/11 or Sharia or any of it, this is being forced upon us.
Sun Tzu and his art of war would say otherwise.
I don’t think Sun Tzu faced an enemy that cared nothing for life or liberty and had a fatalistic view of the world. I doubt Sun Tzu experienced a child walking up to him and blowing up. Islam won’t change it’s mandate diplomatically, rules are rules and their rules say kill.
When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men’s weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be damped. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength.
When with a pool of a billion people to draw suicide bombers from I think they could lay seige to a town for centuries. The town would, of course, collapse long before then.
Islam isn’t and army that follows army rules and tactics. Islam is a society that will drill and drill as long as it senses weakness. Sun Tzu knew how to fight with an army but what does he say about fighting with an entire civilization?
Here is a critical difference I see, most Democrats see Bin Laden, Iraq, Palestine, Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, etc. as all these different fronts in all these different wars. They have to see this or their anti-war stance is garbage.
Republicans see one war against Islamic Fascism and will fight Terrorists where ever they are. This is why no Dean/Kerry Democrat will ever make the U.S. safe, they will pull out of Iraq to focus on Afganistan or Somalia and wonder why nothing is getting done and then quit and wait for the invasion.
Radical Islam has no borders, no morals, no conscious and no guilt. It has no fear and no regard for life. It will seep everyehere it isn’t confronted but when confronted it falls apart. There is no flowery words or job at 7-11 that will convince a fanatic to change their belief system. A bullet will and that is about the only thing.
No offense to military personnel, but I’ve heard first hand that our guys kill indiscriminately. It’s sad, and it can crush the killer. That’s war. I don’t have any illusions that our guys are any better quality human being than anyone else. I believe a quality soldier follows orders without question. I do not believe that this is a trait that leads to being a quality human being. Soldiers have an easy system that they can use to rationalize what would otherwise be murder.
Exactly why this current administration is so distasteful. Leave religious ideology for your Sunday worship.
As for your analysis on the art of war…
Perhaps those rules don’t apply to terror cells and networks. But they sure apply to our military. We cannot sustain this kind of military activity indefinitely.
You nailed it. IT’S THEIR LEGAL SYSTEM!!! What about self-determination? If the majority of Muslims want Sharia law then why shouldn’t they have it? It will be my problem when Sharia law rears it’s head in my state, and country. Until then I’m comfortable letting nations determine their own governmental and legal systems. It is a sovereign right of any nation to establish it’s own rules and systems. Islam is not the problem. We’ve been trading and working diplomatically with these nations for decades. Obviously peaceful co-existence is a possibility. It simply requires leadership on both sides to be reasonable. And this process starts with at least one leader sincerely extending an olive branch. Our leader isn’t wired that way.
The philosophy that we must stop them before they become uncontrollable is based on the premise that we have 100% accurate foresight. Clearly that is not the case. I’m not even sure we have 10% accurate foresight.
Let it go already. Replace Islam with any other cultural group and your statement is equally true. Radicals are… well, they’re radical.
I’ve always read ‘The Art of War’ as being a guidebook for all of life’s conflicts. Much short of violence, that book contains strategy that will allow you to defeat your foe, sometimes (if all goes well) without having to get jiggy w/ the blood and gore.
The book does not indicate what to do when private interests are reliant on war to keep them in profits…as without war, they would possibly go broke.
Frodo – you mentioned earlier that standing down is not an option…in terms of strategy, this is a character flaw, one that will lead to defeat in the long run. Aren’t you quite sure that plenty of people, leaders have stuck by the ‘never back down’ principle, only to be done in by it eventually?
POLITICALLY, to stand down is damaging, but wouldn’t be so bad if one party didn’t consistently consider it a FAILURE, cowardice…yada yada…hand a copy of ‘The Art of War’ to a hawkish Republican in the House and see if they can match up their politics with the wisdom contained inside…
Truthfully – a lot of these people DO understand the concepts, but in actuality, it’s their staff that understands them, and they’re only to be used while campaigning.
My only point really is that brains will beat braun every single day of every single week.
Our military will fail because they are being directed by idiots. But the idiots aren’t going to pay the price for failure. We will and our troops will. “Idiots rule”… anyone?
Want to support our troops? Elect leadership that is up to the challenge. I don’t care if it’s democrat or republican. Just get some brains in the white house. What we have now is embarrassing, and we need better.
Farrell & Co…Nothing’s Shocking
I agree w/ the brains over braun statement. Somehow (maybe it was the bomb) our nation became convinced that we, GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE, would prevail in everything we ever did…just because.
Can’t call our leaders idiots because of how the war is going…you see, that’s now how the game is played apparantly. In fact, “success” is basically what you make of it, whether you’re better off in the end or not. Just ask all those people out there who will tell you with a straight face that we won the Vietnam War.
Let’s say one concedes that we lost, but then points the finger at (not the enemy we were fighting) their own countrymen.
How about calling LBJ and his military advisors what they were? Shit…if Nixon hadn’t lied about ending the war in the first place, the right wouldn’t have had to pretend all these years, they could just come out and call LBJ an idiot and get it over with.
Who can they blame for Iraq? Since all the civilian leadership and the generals can’t be questioned? Haven’t heard of veterans being spit on in the airports on their way home…give that one five years and right-wing radio will just start talking as if it happened all the time…can’t blame the civilian contractors, as that would be placing the blame on the vice president…hmmm…
At least talk radio was able to look at Katrina and say, “How come them nigers ain’t swam away by now? They should have been 100 miles away when that thing hit!”…
Ah, that’s the answer – – – they’ll blame the Iraqis themselves!!!
The “Katrina rationale”…toss it out there on it’s own, see if it stays alive for long…if it does, we can use it on Iraq, Afghanistan and maybe even the federal defecit (“Them dollar bills ganged up on us and did their own thing…it’s them whose to blame”).
Because the “our fellow countrymen stabbed our troops in the back, and THAT’S why we lost that war” is becoming too common of an argument for the right to remain effective – – – I think fear is the way to go.
Keep the terror flowing from DC on out, ramp it up prior to each big election, stories about terrorists targeting voting precints in black and hispanic neighborhoods two days before the mid-terms…heh, see if Americans are out there showing off their colored thumbs in the face of danger!
Shit – – – just keep talking about how we could all be dying soon, pump it up, take that bitch out to sea and see how far she’ll go…shit, some vessels of that mind have been known to wash up on Liberian shores in tact.
Very good Al! I’m happy to see another Jane’s fan out there. Dave Navarro is the host of Rockstar Supernova (which I’m still addicted to). Bit of a sell out, but hey we’re all whores to someone.
That’s an interesting thought about keeping minority voters away from polls with terror scare tactics. I hope a RNC member doesn’t visit your blog and present it as the hope for the party this November.
I think he might suggest that you learn to make peace with them. If you don’t have the intelligence necessary to find out what really motivates them (in order to make peace) then natural selection will run it’s course, and you will fight until you die. And, of course, you are free to fight until you die. For myself I will work to make it clear to those who become your enemy that you do not fight for or represent me. Enjoy the fight.
Captian_M says:
“I think he might suggest that you learn to make peace with them. If you don’t have the intelligence necessary to find out what really motivates them (in order to make peace) then natural selection will run it’s course, and you will fight until you die. And, of course, you are free to fight until you die. For myself I will work to make it clear to those who become your enemy that you do not fight for or represent me. Enjoy the fight.”
The party for a friend who was leaving last night was fun but stopped me from responding in a timely fashion. Yes beers were involved in the celebration.
Captain and Al, I think you are wrong. I am now at work and time is not there to do it justice myself but that does not mean it is not already out there so here it is. It is OK to disagree right? I guess it is but this goes beyond that a little. Sorry if you are offended but this is how I feel.
The Mindset that will Destroy America
This states better than I could why I feel you are wrong.
1938 … and 2006
This link has some good follow-up on the theme and some historical comparisons that are relevant.
I have made some decisions about politics and the state of things in the world today and want to test those by visiting people who disagree. You certainly fit that need for me. Some of the reasons I have for coming here to this Blog are to test myself and my theories. Sometimes you need to challenge yourself and ask yourself some tough questions. Am I right in feeling this way or that way? I do this on a almost daily baisis. It would be easy to only frequent areas of the web and the Blog world that support your own personal conclusions. The real benefit I see from coming here is to test my thoughts and conclusions against opposing points of view. No I do not think this makes me better than anyone else.
These are troubled times I do not think anyone disagrees about that. But what to do about it is another problem that is not so easy to resolve. And we certainly have not resolved anything here. I guess what I am saying is I give up. I see no more benefit to keep arguing here. It will only lead to some hate and discontent and someone will get angry eventually. That is not my goal here. I am sure I will get curious and come back from time to time and read what is being discussed here in the future. As I am also sure that someone will post something that will eventually push one of my buttons and I will respond in someway. But it may be a while.
I guess thanks are in order for offering your points of view. So thanks for that. I still think you are wrong and I hope anyone running for office in the next important election cycles who supports your points of view losses. No offense intended it is just how I honestly feel. I think you may share that sentiment.
Hey, that’s politics. No offense is ever taken. I hate my uncle’s politics (Texas Republican), but he’s a heck of a guy. My mom’s too liberal, but I still love her.
I come to this blog because I feel that there is a very good cross-section of views. Your view is as legitimate as mine. And contrary to what you may think I would fight and die for your right to hold the beliefs that you have.
I also like this blog because people don’t get bashed too badly, and it rarely gets ugly (although I’m guiltier than anyone of being mean). It’s nothing personal. Just fun blogging, and blowing off steam.
I’ll give you credit for not getting ugly. I frequent many conservative blogs, and threads usually end in a long string of profanities. Can be amusing, but gets old quickly.
Anyway, no need to feel like you’ve hit a brick wall with us. Understanding other points of view doesn’t happen over night. If you are going to change my mind it will take many many debates. Anything is possible.
Testing
Frodo- I’m cross-posting some material from the links you provided, with my comments in between. Thanks for providing those – – – first is the caller into the radio show:
I lament how religion has managed to stunt the growth of science here in America in the past few years, but it’s nothing compared to what religion has managed to hold back in Africa and the Middle East! Perhaps they don’t look at us as terrorists, perhaps that’s our perception being projected outwards…perhaps a great majority of these people are simply retarded, and the notion that their Imam down at the mosque ACTUALLY ISN’T having conversations with Allah every night never crosses their mind.
Shit – – – in America we have good education systems in places where there are people who actually believe that dinosaurs and humans lived at the same time…so in these places of the world, people believe that Allah wants them to kill their fellow man…I’m not willing to give a person who believes such nonsense the credit that they’re CAPABLE of crossing the Atlantic and killing anyone!
Snake eating it’s tail…there are stupid liberals and stupid conservatives alike, and this is an example of one from each side. Are the terrorists evil? Assuming that you (the radio host) views everything in the world as either one thing or another, then yes they are evil. The caller says it’s “all our fault”, which is the kind of thing right-wingers would like EVERYONE to believe is the opinion of ALL liberals everywhere.
We expanded our global reach into Saudi Arabia, got cozy with those folks, probably didn’t understand at the time that the royal family (ie, the one family in the country that gets to eat whatever they want everyday, go to college and lead interesting lives) had a member who was itching to become the middle east’s version of Scarface.
Our business in that region wasn’t all shady, wasn’t all pure capitalism either, far from it…but Osama had a mother and father, who probably should have taken notice a while back when he started to get real heavy into guns and religion…should have taken him aside and explained that the two really don’t go together…at least they aren’t supposed to.
Who the fuck cares what she did for a living? Some school teachers stick their dicks into 10 year olds regardless of gender. What does it prove? That all schoolteachers are child molestors? Or that we need to administer polygraph tests to all the teachers so we can weed out the ones who this radio host thinks are crazy? This will haunt him for a long, long time…bullshit. What if she said she was an ordained minister?
Liberalism has NOTHING to do with it. In 1938 you could actually take and occupy land if you had more tanks and soldiers than did your neighbor. Some nations decided against producing these things, decided against maintaining a formidable military force that could DEFEND what was theirs…why? Perhaps because the thousand years of history leading up to 1938 had seen enough murder over nothing in wars that when looked back on today appear to have been fought on ONLY fraudulent rhetoric, often having to do with God as it was told to the people doing the fighting, when all the while it was REALLY all about the king wanting more and more of whatever it is that makes up a kingdom worthy of memory.
People were TIRED of that shit, so they skimped on defense and paid the price. Japan and China ending up in this paragraph is ridiculous! Ask yourself why a phone that would cost $5 to make in the US costs only $.12 to make in China…is Japan today ahead of China technologically? Were they ahead of China in 1938? Were they too convinced (as Hitler was, as Napolean was, as the Huns were, as Alexander the Great was, as ROME was) that they could take over the entire globe by force? INDEED. How does it compare with the world today?
This writer is comparing nations that had the means to embark on these crusades to religious fanatics who we consider ‘nationless’, who have barely managed to kill off a fraction of a fraction of the world’s population…yet when they threaten to kill us, we’re supposed to take them seriously? Are these people more dangerous an organized than the Nazis? I’m sure plenty of right-wingers will say ‘yes’ to that one.
NEWSFLASH – Millions of Americans don’t give a fuck about Israel one way or the other. We sell them guns and bombs and missiles…they’re our customer, nothing more.
Freedom of speech allows someone to sell pictures of a donkey having sex with a woman, so the star of david/swastika thing isn’t all that shocking.
How can this person write this and not feel like people around the world said the same thing about what we did in Iraq?
The ‘deathly afraid of Islamic terrorists’ part is a farce…we’re INDIFFERENT, not scared.
Scared is what the terrorists WANT US TO FEEL, and what our government wants us to feel in the months leading up to national elections.
Fuck the terrorists and all this noise in general…people make too much out of it for their own purposes.
Frodo – do you know that guy? Moderating his comments…I hate writing something and it not showing up…I know it happens here sometimes w/ links and certain words, but so many of these sites show a post with nothing said afterwards, perhaps on purpose? Like Rolling Barrage?
Rolling barrage is no more. Site died under the vacuum of no comments.
I almost never agree with moderation although every blogmaster has to do it sometime. it should be used sparingly and not like a wet blanket. Otherwise, you get no new blood.
The Barrage is done with? Damn, that was fast! This site Frodo is linking to contains a post that uses math to argue the point that serving in Iraq isn’t dangerous, or at least isn’t deadly…I went over the numbers carefully, expecting the author to get to the 60,000+ wounded and counting, but they aren’t mentioned.
Is the rationale that as long as the individual does not die, what they lost isn’t worth adding to such a study? I’d bet that the author wouldn’t answer affirmitively to that question.
Here’s the post I’m talking about, I put up a comment yesterday, and it HAS appeared – I’ll check back to see what shows up in response:
http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com/2006/08/casualty-rates-in-iraq.html
Patrick is the blogger’s name, and I hope we can attract him to the site for some debate. I’m glad to see the comment up today, I’ll check on the others I posted later on. Good stuff! As long as comments aren’t chosen based on whether or not the person agrees with the author, I’ve got a lot of respect for whoever takes the time to lay out their beliefs like he has.
Frodo, thanks again for linking to this blog!
On this thread I posted comments but they’re hidden or have been deleted:
http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com/2006/08/mindset-that-will-destroy-america.html
Basically, my position is that if the comments aren’t full of profanities or personal attacks, they should be posted, or the blogger is basically masturbating, with us (the audience) being used as a happy sock.
So if you can’t debate your points with someone who disagrees with you, then you’ve probably chosen the wrong hobby!
True. If you are a poor debater, then you should write about barking dogs and weirdoes at your front gate.
I’ve got company here for a short visit, or I would write more.
I’d like to discuss the proper etiquette to employ when the new neighbor’s dogs have an affinity for shitting in MY BRAND NEW LAWN!!!
More later. Party on dudes.
OK, one more comment. The CIA has a term for this. “Blowback” occurs when operations have unanticipated consequences years or decades later. Generally, operations aren’t public knowledge, but the consequences of these operations cause the American public to stand up and ask “why did they (the foreign nation) do that?” Of course by that time policy and decision makers have changed out and the accountability dodge continues.
I saw this on “Why We Fight“. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Worth the watch.
CM – rest assured, I’ve got ‘Why We Fight’ on my hard drive and have watched it twice already. If you want a data copy, just say the word and it’s on the way to Alaska.
Today I see similar nonsense going down in Somalia and probably South America for all we know. It’s time for someone to step up in this country…maybe one of the Dems can prove themselves worthy of my vote come ’08.
9/11 happened with these people in charge, so the fact that they orchestrated most of the actions that led to it will have to die this time around.
I read Gore Vidal…he figures that FDR could have prevented pearl harbor, but because he needed the public behind his vision for an allied victory in Europe, he allowed them to strike first…sacrelige right? Imagine if the GOP had a Democratic administration planting the seeds of 9/11…what the conversation would be about today.