Simplistic anti-logic has fueled much of the talk from Republicans on the floors of the house and senate this past week, offering Americans the perspective that reads:
If you’re talking about a withdrawal plan, you’re a coward. Open-ended deployment equals courage and toughness, while talk about anything other than the status quo equals ‘cut and run’. Think about these ‘cut and run’ Democrats back in WW2, and if they had their way, we’d be speaking German today!
A point of view that Joe-Six-Pack is even smart enough to understand. Excellent – until it came out that General Casey is proposing a troop withdrawal plan, one that the White House was forced to confirm, uh…
So General Casey is a coward? He’s proposing a reduction in troop levels in Iraq, and if you do that, you’re on the ‘cut and run’ side of the debate. If the shoe fits…
Just remember what political party DIDN’T set up a straw man that managed to allign General Casey with a batch of cowards…I don’t remember Democrats setting up that type of anti-logic. Indeed, the ‘Karl Rove Experience’ hasn’t put out a new song in quite a while now. Just the same ‘classics’, city after city…
Simply match up the words of Republicans at all levels of the federal government last week, with this proposal submitted by General Casey, and reality further exposes itself as the #1 enemy of Republicans leading up to the mid-term elections. A mere two years after it worked the last time, suddenly a 20-minute extended version of ‘Sweet Home Alabama’ doesn’t pack the house like it used to.
Bad luck for the band, perhaps good luck for the troops relying on YOU AND I to vote in favor of sparing their lives. As of right now, the General in charge of the troops agrees with a drawdown, so all we have to do is vote out the Republicans who refuse to let them come home.
If sweet home alabamy don’t work there’s always freebird.
Skynard!!!!!
So General Casey is a coward? He’s proposing a reduction in troop levels in Iraq, and if you do that, you’re on the ‘cut and run’ side of the debate. If the shoe fits…
I’m afraid you are going to have to start making some sense. Casey is advocating troop withdrawl because we are winning. Democrats desperately want another Vietnam, where the Left is able to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. It’s like everytime our football team makes a touchdown the towelboy wants to forfeit the game, even tough the other guys only have one field goal.
Democrats don’t have America’s best interests in mind when they try to surrender to terror. Republicans want to win, and we are, so there is no reason to surrender. Democrats will be devastated when we win this war and it shows.
I watched a couple of flicks last night.
One was called “Uncovered: The Whole Truth About Iraq”, and the other was called “Why We Fight”.
Both were good. Nothing new really in the whole truth about Iraq one though. It was made in 2003. Looking back and watching news footage from 2003 it is incredible to believe that we (the U.S. citizenry) bought the case for the Iraqi invasion that was presented to us.
The scarier movie was the why we fight flick. It’s starts off with Eisenhower’s farewell address to the nation in 1961.
It got me to thinking about the GOP position that “we’ll stand down as the Iraqis stand up”. This is a pipe dream. How on earth could the Iraqis possibly replace U.S. forces? Seriously, our military forces are the result of vast amounts of U.S. tax dollars poured into an industrial process that churns out incredibly hi-tech gadgets that allow us to inflict enormous casualties with very few losses. There is no way the Iraqis can build up anything closely resembling this within the next 10 years, or ever even. And this doesn’t even take into consideration the reality that Iraqi forces are highly fragmented, and more loyal to their tribe than to the nation.
As for RT and his thoughts on winning the war… first, Iraq is not a war, it’s an occupation that isn’t going well (How would RT feel if 18 year old Iraqi soldiers stopped and frisked him at every street corner in his hometown?). And second, I believe that the average American (including Democrats) is interested in finding Bin Laden and stopping his terror network, which the Republicans apparently aren’t all that interested in.
Anyway, a couple of pretty good movies. The truth about Iraq one is a shorty, only 56 minutes. Lotsa CIA analysts, and people who make very reasonable arguments regarding the silliness of invading Iraq. BTW RT, sarin has a shelf life of two months. The last time Hussein developed sarin was in 1991. Big threat.
The why we fight movie is a bit longer, and focuses a bit more on our entire history (post WWII) of militarization and warfare.
Eisenhower’s statements were a perfect diagnosis. Communism allowed the military industrial complex to build up to the point where it was obvious we were wasting money, but terrorism has wiped out the need for politicians to watch over the enormous flow of wasted money. Henry Waxman is the guy I see who has been on this, but his words aren’t echoed effectively. He found instances of fraud that violated the contract the company agreed to with the government, the audits proved this, and the Pentagon payed it out anyway! Any Halliburton contract or one of their babies’ WILL be paid, regardless of whether the government got what they paid for or not.
This is a NEVER-COVERED-FACT, and the former President hit it right on the head. A military man himself, not having rotated from high government to the defense market and back…
General Casey said almost exactally what Democrats were saying last week – – – I saw a couple clips of Fox and Friends where the hosts’ heads almost exploded on camera…the guest kept repeating what General Casey had said, quoting him, and eventually the host said something like “well I’ll wait for the REAL Pentagon statement”…
The CIVILIAN pentagon statement! After Bush has said for YEARS that he does what his generals advise!
Their politics are ridiculous at this point, decimating the sanctity of the debate completely. It’s not about Iraq, it’s about campaigning now, it’s about insults and venom at this point. That’s all you have. This coordination with the attack on the NYTimes and the Iraq occupation – it’s to get people pointing fingers.
I’ve always said that the best way to head off an offensive is to conduct a risk assessment, consider what your enemy’s best shots are, then preempt their action with one of your own.
If you’re not competent enough to get to that step, AT LEAST have a playbook and know what side you’re on! Democrats rarely amount to anything in terms of the noise machine, the media, so it has to be done well, it has to be relevent, and most importantly it has to equal a three word phrase that EVERYONE knows to use all at once on cue.
Get good at playing their game and make them find another one. I don’t get why there’s infighting within the party at this point. Dean is the chairman, everyone’s running again when their time is up…just agree that you’re on the same side and at least appear coordinated once in a while when the bullshit starts flying around.
Because it’s not going to get any easier from here. Rove has the numbers, knows the numbers…look at the numbers and think of “what’s next?”
Get the contact list together, and freeze out a member or two who can’t be part of the team until mid-terms. Lieberman…listen to Murtha’s statement regarding him…now there’s a guy who understands what I’m laying down here!
These fucking senators with their future presidential runs…not team players, besides Biden and Finegold – – – Kerry and Clinton might as well not even show up for work, just campaign full time, hunker down in old folks homes, kiss babies.
Gore-Kerry, Gore-Finegold…I have a lot of love for Biden, but can he blast out the presidential vibe like Finegold? I think it’s spelled fiengold…bleh
Finished my first two classes, second two start next monday, I’ve been reading about 120 pages a day on HTML, Java, coding…some things aren’t functioning properly upstairs. Didn’t realize how much of a drain this schedule would be…7 semesters/year is NO JOKE…I wouldn’t advise it to anyone, ever…
Actually, it’s a good pace, keeps me on my toes. But I’d feel like a jerk if I reccomended it to anyone and it wasn’t up their alley. It’s like language training…S.R. HOAT and Adam were able to learn Russian in 63 weeks, I tried Korean and Russian but it didn’t take. Kind of nice in the sense that I’m able to feel some redemption.
One last thing…the Red Sox are unstopable
I watched the a House WMD committee last night on CSPAN. It was a tad disgusting watching the Republican committee chair trying to get David Kay (Iraq weapons inspector 2002-2004) to say that Iraq had and does have WMD. A little verbal arm-twisting going on. You quickly realize how professionally damaging it could be for an “expert” to say the wrong thing at a House committee hearing. Many of these “experts” receive large grants and contracts through these very committees.
Kay said that there were more dangerous (based on toxicity) chemicals under his kitchen sink and in his garage than the sarin, vx, and mustard that has been unearthed in Iraq. The chair went on to say “that’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.” Nevermind that on a pure toxicity scale it’s a factual and true statement.
The entire hearing was about getting an “expert” to publicly state that there were and are WMD in Iraq.
What I found out is that Iraqi sarin, vx, and most other chemical weapons degrade very very quickly. This was a problem for the Iraqis. They had to manufacture the stuff and use it within a month or two. This also prevented them from really developing any stockpiles. Most of the shells that they were to use to deliver the chemicals sat empty right up until they were to be launched. Once a shell was armed with chemicals it is incredibly difficult to extract the chemical out for other purposes. And mustard gas just never proved to be effective (heavier than air and generally isn’t lethal). Soldiers figured out how to beat mustard gas in WWI (stay out of low topographies, and put on a mask). And finally no NEW chemical weapons or chemical weapons production capabilities have been found. It’s all pre-’91 stuff. Some from the Russians, and some from us.
Kay’s main beef was that in the early stages of the Iraq occupation there was absolutely no security on the traditional ordinance stockpiles which are now being used daily in IEDs to kill people. He witnessed Iraqis in trucks pulling up to these unprotected weapons depots and just loading up with all kinds of artillery shells and rockets.
Number of American troops killed by chemical weapons: 0
Number of American troops killed by IEDs developed from traditional ordinance: thousands
I also learned that the term WMD (weapons of mass destruction) was first coined by the Russians as a means of stiring up national support for their nuclear weapons program so that they could fight the U.S. WMD threat. This historical note did not go over well with the house chair when the experts testifying explained it.
Pretty comical overall. The trick is to get the experts to say what you want them to say. And if they don’t then you insult and marginalize them.
I have mixed feelings about Eisenhower. This is THE president that authorized the CIA to support the overthrowing of the Iranian govt back in 1953. Many many of our problems with Arab perception of the U.S. started right then and there (the Shah we supported wasn’t a swell guy). And really all that the overthrown Iranian leader (Mossedegh) was trying to do was insure that the corporation that is now BP didn’t steal Iran’s most precious resource… oil. Funny how it all comes back to oil.
Kay said that there were more dangerous (based on toxicity) chemicals under his kitchen sink and in his garage than the sarin, vx, and mustard that has been unearthed in Iraq. The chair went on to say “that’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.” Nevermind that on a pure toxicity scale it’s a factual and true statement.
I agree, that is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard too. I’m pretty sure a pin drop of Palm Olive won’t kill 1,000 people. The discussion was about weapons that kill huge numbers of people, no how bad a chemical is for frog reproduction. That sure is some expert, hehe.
RT: I think he was referring to the cans of Raid insect killer his wife had under the sink. If you’ve got a can, spray it directly into your mouth and tell me how you feel.
So tell me what you know about Iraqi manufactured sarin and vx. I’m curious to hear from a real expert. I’m guessing that you aren’t really interested in statements of fact, based on actual evidence.
I hate to be the one to break this to you but there hasn’t been anything in the way of chemical weapons found in Iraq that could kill “huge” numbers of people today (or even 10 years ago). I witnessed first hand Republican congressmen pressing experts, and trying to get them to admit that these weapons represented a threat today (you could have witnessed it to if you had watched the hearing on CSPAN). It was almost uncomfortable watching these experts squirm under the interrogative pressure to admit to something they knew to be untrue. However, there was overwhelming agreement that the weapons found are absolutely no threat whatsoever today (because of rapid chemical degradation). The casualty statistics for chemical weapons attack support this conclusion. There have been no U.S. casualties during the past 3 years from Iraqi chemical weapon attacks (despite the fact that troops do not routinely where protection from chemical attacks). In fact more Americans have died from pesticide poisoning over the past 3 years than from the Iraqi chemical weapon threat.
You’d better latch on to a different justification for the current occupation of Iraq because the WMD threat just doesn’t hold up to objective scrutiny.
As a history whore, I’ve got theories established when I was still in the Army that are seeming to prove true today. In any army unit today you’ll find at least one soldier who was in the first gulf war. The ailments of ‘these’ soldiers is interesting…without getting into all the case studies and details, what I think happened was Saddam relied on his cache of expired chemicals, combining them, doing whatever he thought might work attached to the head of a scud missile.
The effect of THOSE chemicals (the same ones we’re talking about now) was a far cry from what happened to the Iranians and Kurds he used the potent versions on, but a number of unexplainable medical conditions have been reported by many who were a part of that campaign.
While our government will never approach the matter of chemical weapons or depleated uranium when dealing with these veterans (many who have had 2, 3 autistic children), it’s interesting that they’ll embrace the logic in this instance.
A year or so ago, I was on right thinking from the left coast, arguing about the effects of the first gulf war on its veterans, and drumwaster was spouting statements like, “‘you could take a bath in a tub full of depleated uranium and NOTHING would happen, you idiot!’…or, ‘your theories are bunk, as the shelf life of those chemicals weren’t long enough to produce the symptoms our veterans are reporting’, you idiot!”
Now this very same stuff is DEADLY!!!!
A case study on being wrong, and what it does to an argument over time!
What they are doing today is pure cherry picking, good old fashioned partisan politics. Has nothing to do with the technical details of chemical warfare.
I will give credit to one Republican House member who said that quibbling over whether or not these degraded weapons are a current threat is completely beside the point really. He said that the bigger issue is that a case was sold to the American people based on KNOWN false information (outlined in the National Intelligence Estimate). His concern (and rightly so) is that in the future when there are REAL threats Americans will not be nearly so supportive in a time of REAL need because they have been so blatantly lied to in the days preceeding and during this occupation.
This Representative gave me some hope that the Republican party is not 100% corrupt. A little honesty is so uplifting these days. Pretty sad.
As for drumwaster, that guy would argue with a door… if only the door would argue back. Some people just like to fight, plain and simple.
None of these hacks running the GOP today have a single care about what these actions, decisions and political battle royales will have on the future of our country. They’re still clinging to the absurd notion that Abramoff, Santorum and Delay being out of the picture won’t matter in terms of retaining power forever.
The K-Street idea was to funnel aides and politicians into lobbying positions, to and fro…the stats about the homeland security department’s percentage of retention and the fact that more than half became lobbyists – – –
bleh
IF K-Street worked like a charm, it wouldn’t matter anymore, these “facts” you speak of…they wouldn’t even be correct to call facts anymore. The word wouldn’t exist unless repeated by 200 republicans in congress all at once.
Question for veterans.
Roughly what percentage of U.S. military recruits DO YOU THINK sign up primarily for financial reasons (including tuition)?
I watched Syriana last night and one side story was about a couple of young Arab guys that were hurting financially and got caught up with radical religious recruiters. I was wondering if their system is really that much different from ours.
As for the movie overall. It was OK, pretty much leaves you with the impression that regardless of what happens, the global economic machine just keeps on chugging. And so it seems.
Side note, did you guys read about the Michigan Marine recruiter who was in Fahrenheit 9/11? He was the guy in the mall parking lot fishing for young poor dudes, “better to get them in groups of one or two”. Anyway, he died from an IED in Iraq.
Happy Independence Day guys! I think I may be headed out camping.
I did read about that marine dying. Something I can’t stand at all is seeing someone like him in a documentary and knowing about that…recruiters are generally a group that must deal with hostility from the community they serve in, parents, disrespectful teens, run-arounds, “yea i’d like to join” (show up at the guy’s house to drive him to the airport and nobody answers the door)…
They deal with bullshit on a constant basis from both their community and their leadership…high ranking assholes who will squeeze you dry to get the numbers and won’t feel bad for a second about how your life, mental stability or marriage ends up once the assignment is over with.
Michael Moore had a point to make in that scene, and those two marine recruiters could have been anyone. I always say to people that before you go judging the entire corps of military recruiters, think of the type of pressure that they’re under, and most importantly remember that these people are extremely motivated and devoted to their careers – – – they don’t have a say of whether or not they have to recruit, and all of them want to make it a successful stretch in their career packet, to make the highest rank possible prior to retirement.
The lying, scaming…anyone outraged over the things these people say…they should focus on ‘why’ they’re saying it, determine motive, as behind that thought process resides the understanding necessary to put yourself into their shoes, perhaps empathize.
People in general I’ve noticed in my life…have a hard time understanding that the anger they feel towards an organization is wrong to direct towards someone working for it that has no say in anything. It’s like hollaring at the desk clerk at the post office for a mistake your letter carrier made.
Just wrong to do however you slice it.
On the % question – I’d be amazed if (enlisted) wasn’t above 98% with money as the reason for enlisting.
Bad deal, they get paid next to nothing. Economic realities work to keep the military staffed…
Ever wonder why Republicans were SO against a minimum wage increase? Heh – they can’t get people to enlist with it being as low as it is!
I can completely understand why recruiters are the way they are. I’m just not wired that way. I’d be a horrible salesperson for the military.
Now if I was selling Toyotas, or my backyard mosquito magnet, I’d make a hell of a sales person.
I don’t hold any animosity towards recruiters. I can remember when I was a senior in high school. I was working at a gas station in Rochester NH. The recruiter that passed through there was a great guy (older guy), no pressure. I was close to joining. Glad I didn’t, and not for obvious reasons.
You hit it right on the head, it’s the product that sucks, and the recruiter is now equivalent to Shelly Levine in GlenGaryGlenRoss.
Rochester, NH – hmmm, did I ever mention that I lived in NH for about 6 years, throughout high school?
Why didn’t you end up joining?
A girl.
I love NH (and Vermont, and Maine, and Mass ain’t too bad either). If I wasn’t so tied to Alaska I’d be very happy living on the east coast. I’ve lived in Keene and Portsmouth NH. I didn’t actually live in Rochester. I lived in Lebanon ME, just across the river from Rochester.
Whereabouts were you in NH?