“I like guys who’ve never been there that criticize us who’ve been there. I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and send people to war, and then don’t like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done.”
The Democrat from PA is a marine veteran of the Vietnam War, with medals coming out of his ears. His position on the war has changed based on where we are now compared with where the neocons told us we’d be. What’s most comical about the response from Republicans was that the “reprehensible and irresponsible” talking point was repeated over and over and over.
Now we have a moment where everyone out there who claims to ‘Support the Troops’ can decide to take this man’s version or Cheney’s. Here we are months after our VP said the insurgency was in its “last throes”, and the situation in Iraq hasn’t represented his claim in any measurable way. We’ve got new American courpses to mourn every single day, and the truth of the matter is, they could all die tomorrow and this chickenhawk would still insist that everything is going well.
The difference between life and death is indeed political, but if you take a look at the statements made on both sides of the aisle and it’s clear which party is resorting to politics without facts. All you have to do is pay attention to who is speaking from the heart, and who is offering nothing more than talking points. These Republicans know full well what went wrong in Iraq, and they also know that the administration has been proven wrong time and time again. How they can take anything these people say seriously in regards to the war is beyond me, but as I see it, the troops HAVE TO continue suffering for their political needs.
That’s right. The troops are at the mercy of politics here in America. There’s the White House who’ve bungled the entire thing and are desperate to evade reality and public opinon. Then there’s the Democrats who are speaking on behalf of the people. The polls speak for themselves, the country is on the side of the Democrats on this issue.
Murtha had a lot of good things to say, but here are a couple of my favorites:
In response to Cheney calling criticism of the runup to the war “one of the most dishonest and reprehensible charges ever aired in this city”, Murtha said, “I like guys who’ve never been there that criticize us who’ve been there. I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and send people to war, and then don’t like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done.”
Referring to Bush, Murtha added: “I resent the fact, on Veterans Day, he criticized Democrats for criticizing them.”
“It is time for a change in direction,” said Rep. John Murtha (news, bio, voting record), D-Pa., one of Congress’ most hawkish Democrats. “Our military is suffering, the future of our country is at risk. We cannot continue on the present course. It is evident that continued military action in Iraq is not in the best interests of the United States of America, the Iraqi people or the Persian Gulf region.”
Who’s more credible? Cheney and Bush or Murtha?
Cry havoc and unleash the dogs of war!! What would Murtha have us do ? You might want to print that Chris !!!
Print what? I wonder if there’s a poll out there of Vietnam vets, what they think of the Iraq War.
Cheney and the righty pundits would have you think that they’re all deranged. Once the truth about Pat Tillman’s feelings towards the Iraq War became known, Ann Coulter said she didn’t believe it – and the rest of them are now silent about a guy they had put up on their shoulders.
Tillman get’s droped to the ground, as does every veteran who disagrees with the administration. That’s where the ‘Support’ dries up, and quite typically the individuals battling for the administration (McClellan, Cheney, Bush, Frist) haven’t ever been near the battlefield.
There’s a huge difference between disagreeing about the methodology of a war and the war itself. Your Vietnam vets poll would probably find that Vets don’t want another Vietnam, where we are winning the war but then public puts a bunch of liberals in office who start sabotaging the war followed by a surrender.
This Murtha guy hasn’t a clue which is odd because of his military experience. Maybe it’s been so long ago that he just can’t remember how an effective military and national security policy works.
We can’t let Democrats throw another region of the planet into chaos providing a breeding ground for dictators like Pol Pot, who, thanks to Democrats of the 70s, was able to slaughter millions of his own people.
Here’s where you’re selling yourself short Right. The man went in as an enlisted, served as a drill sergeant (the hardest job that there is in the military) and retired after 37 YEARS as a Colonel.
Now we’ve got the man you believe in, Cheney, saying the insurgency was in it’s ‘last throes’. Who’s got more credibility? The 37 year war vet who gave US…you and me and my children and your children, 37 years of his life – or Cheney.
Put aside Cheney’s lack of service and simply focus on what the man has said publicly concerning this war. He’s been wrong about EVERYTHING. The credibility lies on the side of those who have been there.
Murtha is held in very high regard by Republicans who work with him on the defense appropriations subcommittee. That’s why this was such a big story yesterday. He supported the decision to go to war, and is a guy who shies away from publicity.
He’s served his entire life for us…as a Marine and as a Congressman. Cheney, Rumsfeld…they jumped at corporate gigs when Republicans weren’t in the White House.
Murtha is the one who’s sacrificed throughout his entire life for the sake of the republic.
What history book did that come from Right? I’d seriously like to know the author who came up with that.
Pol Pot killed his own…Nixon napalmed Laos…it was none of our business to begin with. What did we learn from Vietnam? Not much apparantly, as we’re still fighting wars across the world against the people who actually live there.
You CANNOT win such a war in the best conditions, let alone with a force that cannot speak the local language!
3 rotations in Iraq is enough. The soldiers and marines have DONE THEIR JOB! It’s not their fault insurgent attacks have climbed in the past year, and it’s not their fault that too few troops and not enough equipment were provided for them to begin with.
Forcing a young man with a wife and children to make a 4th trip to Iraq really says something about the kind of people we are here in America.
Murtha’s remarks gets a proper Fisking here:
Link
Another one here:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/005807.php
Why are the Democrats putting so much weight on either Criminalizing the War, Libby/Plame investigation, or trying to get us the hell out as soon as possible? Are things really that bad over there? Maybe we should consider someone’s opinion, who has been there not only during Saddam’s regime but now as well? Or does this make to much sense? You ask should we believe Cheney, Bush or Murtha? How about none of the above. Zeesh this should be common sense but will the media/Dems cover it any other way?
Read This:
Iraq is gradually, methodically putting the foundation in place for a successful future. Here is news from Iraqi patriot Haider Ajina on current positive developments that you will not here in the US defeatist media.
Let us not forget…
The following is my translation of a headline and article in the November 15th edition of the Kuwaiti Arabic newspaper Alqabas
Iraqi Vice president: “Current violence is preferable to Saddam’s rule.”
Read that last line again. Let it sink in. Do you think that way after watching the news or listening to any of the Dems lately??
Read on:
Iraqi vice president Adel Abdul Mehdi described the current violence in his country while ruthless is preferable to the days of Saddam’s rule. During Saddam’s rule over 30 thousand Iraqi were killed yearly in addition to the wars his dictatorial rule engaged in.
Abdul Mehdi while visiting Washington DC was interviewed by the Washington Post to whom he complained about the media and its readers concentrating on bad news from Iraq, and disregarding the great accomplishments of and in Iraq.
Ajinas adds: A second high-ranking Iraqi official gives it to the media about ignoring accomplishments and positive news in Iraq. Next thing you know the mainstream media will at least giving good news from Iraq equal ink or air. I can only hope…
An average of over 30 thousand Iraqis a year killed by Saddam’s regime since 1980 that is almost 700 thousand and all the dead from the Iran, Kuwait & final war of Iraqi liberation estimated over 1 million. We have stopped a murderer of 1.7 million Iraqis and hundreds of thousand of Iranians & Kuwaitis. He can kill no more nor can he strike fear in his people or his neighbors or the region. The same with Hitler, Stalin, Mau, Japanese Imperialist expansion, stopping North Korea etc.
Teh Iraq’s are also becoming short with the medias reporting. When will the good that has happened staart to make it in the lime light. Oh stupid me it is not quagmire or anti-Bush enough … GRRRRRR…
Here is twist story:
The U.S. military saves Sunni men from a jail:
BAGHDAD, Iraq – U.S. troops’ discovery of 173 mostly Sunni Arab men beaten and malnourished in a secret Interior Ministry jail has sent a jolt of optimism through Baghdad’s disaffected Sunni minority.
“This is like a dream – the American forces free Iraqi prisoners tortured by the government?” said Huthayfa Mohammed, 20, a Sunni Arab who can’t find his brother after Iraqi police detained him. “This is brand new.”
Mohammed sat in a coffee shop Wednesday in the Sunni neighborhood of Adhemiya in northeast Baghdad, where men played cards and dominoes and smoked water pipes. And he smiled. Now people know the truth, he said.
I wish they did in the US. Thanks main stream media … Thanks Democrats … for nothing.
To all the troops out there stay safe and come home in one piece. There are those of out there who do not want to undermind your efforts. Kick some but!
Sorry I forgot the link that contains some of the above quotes.
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2005/11/will-us-now-abandon-hopes-progress-of.html
What history book did that come from Right? I’d seriously like to know the author who came up with that.
The media and communists (democrats) convinced the public that life, liberty and freedom were not worth fighting for. The public then elected a bunch of liberal “surrender now” official who voted down the appropriations bill to fund the defense of South Vietnam.
Unable to pay for military defense the voluntary retreat left wide open the central part of S. Vietnam and the rest is history. There is evidence of Kerry’s trips to Paris to meet with the representatives of the Communist North. Probably got some awards, money or what every you get when you sell out your nation.
North Vietnam, it is shown though newly discovered historical data, was finished. The only way they could win is for the U.S. to completely surrender the war on the eve of victory. Thanks Democrats.
Frodo – from your first link:
The blogger quotes Murtha, then ignores the basis of his argument completely. We spend more money on intelligence than every other country in the world put together, and even then we couldn’t get the thing RIGHT.
Murtha is speaking on behalf of the soldiers. We failed them. I used to be one, so I take this VERY seriously. If I’m a soldier and my own tax dollars fund the intelligence aparatus, the call that’s made better be the RIGHT ONE!
He cites the fact that based on what happened with the Iraq war, based on those mistakes, since the troops are the ONLY Americans suffering from them, after 3 rotations, 2000+ dead, “15,500 have been seriously injured and it is estimated that over 50,000 will suffer from battle fatigue.”
After 4 rotations of 6 months+ what will the numbers look like? Saying the war must go on means you’re comfortable with what WILL be the aftermath of that decision. A 4th rotation into Iraq for a lot of soldiers will mean their future is again up in the air, their families-marriages fall apart, and when they get back, the medical they’ll be counting on isn’t there. The VA budget is underfunded annually. They pay enough for the numbers they had to treat six months ago – never accounting for the fact that the number of people the program is being forced to treat is increasing with each passing day.
We’re not prepared to continue along in this way with the military force we now have. And Murtha, a 37 year Marine veteran knows what he’s talking about on this score.
This statement is morally reprehensible. Kill counts as a justification for sending soldiers and marines to Iraq for a 4th time is the logic of a tyrant. Human life is an expendable commodity, and the military is there not to complete a mission, but to produce a good score in battles that are had. To this individual, all that matters is the 80-3 score. If three years from now the score is 80-3…regardless of whether or not the enemys’ attacks continue to go up as they have since we invaded…as long as the score is 80-3, it should never end.
I always knew when I was in that there were people out there in America who considered my body to be nothing more than ground beef. I was a commidity to be used up.
While the military is advertised as a technical force, strategically and technologically advanced to maximize effeciency and minimize risk – the exact opposite is true. We’re not using the high priced gizmos out there – we’re not defeating the enemy using our amazing guided missile technology…no, we’re killing an enemy that continues to grow in size with mortars, artillery shells, air strikes and rifiles.
All these billions of dollars spent since Vietnam and we’re fighting the war in the exact same way that we fought that war. THE ENEMY HAS GOTTEN BETTER! IEDs, getting Sunnis and Shiites killing one another, creating a war within a war.
But to this sorry bastard, it’s all irrelevant, because the people wearing uniforms aren’t real people…they’re nothing but numbers on a scoreboard!
This is ridiculous. He again quotes Murtha and ignores what the man said. How about those troops he visited in the hospitals? Why quote it if you don’t give a damn about any of it?
Rewriting history on what emboldened Osama. Read up on Russia’s war with Afghanistan and our role in all of that. Who is Osama Bin Laden before that war? Pretending Somalia had the most to do with Osama becoming who he is today is ignorant.
HA! HILLARIOUS! The writer, having done such a bang up job so far of putting a human face on this thing, has now stated that THE WAR CAN BE WON BY THROWING MORE MONEY AT IT! Brilliant. Nobody in history has ever tried to fix something by doing that…yes, we are in the presence of brilliance here ladies and gentlemen. Get this guy a campaign fund and some TV spots! Only a year till the midterm elections.
Get up there in the debate and enlighten everyone in the crowd and home watching on TV to your amazing solution to the problems facing government. Talking point: “It’s broke? Throw money at it, next.”
I can’t finish this one – life is too short.
F&*K HIM! They’re so comfortable with the violence, let them take care of it then. They were elected, the country has a constitution, GOOD LUCK Mr. Vice President!
The people in charge right now are OBVIOUSLY happier now than they were when Saddam had power and they didn’t! Stating that the violence is acceptable tells me that he’s doesn’t participate in many firefights.
Name me a news organization that feels safe outside of the green zone. I’m waiting…a company that authorizes their people to go out and cover the ‘feel good’ stories within the Sunni community.
He says that the violence is acceptable, preferable to life with Saddam…he’s alright with the violence, yet chastises the media for not covering the good stories in Iraq…yet, the violence is what prevents the media from covering those stories.
“Newly discovered historical data” = shit we made up
Rush Limbaugh has argued this for years, yet when you take ever member of Congress that fought in that war and ask them about it…they don’t see it this way. Right, this is not the truth about the situation in Vietnam when we left. The North wasn’t just about to fold. Find me a reputable historian that supports this theory.