Cindy Sheehan Debate

The way her story snowballed the week I was on vacation was pretty amazing, but at the same time it fits right into the Lakoff logic of what hits people in a way that causes their minds to make a connection and what doesn’t. While the majority of Americans haven’t had a son or daughter die in Iraq, every parent can identify with the potential horror of losing one of our children. It’s that empathetic connection that allows this story to completely trancend the politics.

Whereas even Valerie Plame was seen by Americans as a ‘player’, or someone in government. Sheehan is just one of us, and for that reason the smear campaign has backfired in the same way that the smear campaign against Terri Shiavo’s husband backfired. When it’s someone who works in politics or for a government agency, we as Americans naturally view them in a different light. We associate a smear against someone who works for the government in our minds quite differently than we do a smear on someone who could very well be a neighbor of ours.

It works the same way for a Hollywood celebrity, as most Americans could care less that they’re stalked by paparazzi. We don’t sympathize with them in the same way we decline to sympathize with someone like Richard Clarke or Joe Wilson. They might as well be Demi Moore or Brad Pitt.

Here are some interesting takes on this story:

The Swift Boating of Cindy Sheehan
By FRANK RICH

When these setbacks happen in Iraq itself, the administration punts. But when they happen at home, there’s a game plan. Once Ms. Sheehan could no longer be ignored, the Swift Boating began. Character assassination is the Karl Rove tactic of choice, eagerly mimicked by his media surrogates, whenever the White House is confronted by a critic who challenges it on matters of war. The Swift Boating is especially vicious if the critic has more battle scars than a president who connived to serve stateside and a vice president who had “other priorities” during Vietnam.

The most prominent smear victims have been Bush political opponents with heroic Vietnam résumés: John McCain, Max Cleland, John Kerry. But the list of past targets stretches from the former counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke to Specialist Thomas Wilson, the grunt who publicly challenged Donald Rumsfeld about inadequately armored vehicles last December. The assault on the whistle-blower Joseph Wilson – the diplomat described by the first President Bush as “courageous” and “a true American hero” for confronting Saddam to save American hostages in 1991 – was so toxic it may yet send its perpetrators to jail.

True to form, the attack on Cindy Sheehan surfaced early on Fox News, where she was immediately labeled a “crackpot” by Fred Barnes. The right-wing blogosphere quickly spread tales of her divorce, her angry Republican in-laws, her supposed political flip-flops, her incendiary sloganeering and her association with known ticket-stub-carrying attendees of “Fahrenheit 9/11.” Rush Limbaugh went so far as to declare that Ms. Sheehan’s “story is nothing more than forged documents – there’s nothing about it that’s real.”

But this time the Swift Boating failed, utterly, and that failure is yet another revealing historical marker in this summer’s collapse of political support for the Iraq war.

When the Bush mob attacks critics like Ms. Sheehan, its highest priority is to change the subject. If we talk about Richard Clarke’s character, then we stop talking about the administration’s pre-9/11 inattentiveness to terrorism. If Thomas Wilson is trashed as an insubordinate plant of the “liberal media,” we forget the Pentagon’s abysmal failure to give our troops adequate armor (a failure that persists today, eight months after he spoke up). If we focus on Joseph Wilson’s wife, we lose the big picture of how the administration twisted intelligence to gin up the threat of Saddam’s nonexistent W.M.D.’s.

The hope this time was that we’d change the subject to Cindy Sheehan’s “wacko” rhetoric and the opportunistic left-wing groups that have attached themselves to her like barnacles. That way we would forget about her dead son. But if much of the 24/7 media has taken the bait, much of the public has not

Source

The Entire OpEd

This is what really got me thinking about what specifically worked in prior smears that’s not working now. Rich tends to chalk it up to public opinion of the war, but I firmly believe it’s less about that and more about whether or not people can connect with what she’s doing. Whether or not Americans agree with her point of view, the dynamic of her camping out in Crawford and the President declining to meet with her is what’s driving public opinion.

He’s 100% right that the GOP strategy is always to divert attention from what the person is saying, and instead focus on personal details. Tear down the character of whoever dissents and talk about that, while avoiding the content of message.

Bush will `go on with life’
Defends refusal to meet protester

KEN HERMAN – Cox News Service
CRAWFORD, Texas – President Bush, noting that lots of people want to talk to the president and “it’s also important for me to go on with my life,” on Saturday defended his decision not to meet with the grieving mom of a soldier killed in Iraq.

Bush said he is aware of the anti-war sentiments of Cindy Sheehan and others who have joined her protest near the Bush ranch.

“But whether it be here or in Washington or anywhere else, there’s somebody who has got something to say to the president, that’s part of the job,” Bush said on the ranch. “And I think it’s important for me to be thoughtful and sensitive to those who have got something to say.”

“But,” he added, “I think it’s also important for me to go on with my life, to keep a balanced life.”

Source

Notice the sentiment here is about maintaining his own peace of mind, above that of Sheehan or the majority of Americans who disagree with his policy.

Would Abe Lincoln Stop and Visit Cindy Sheehan?
by Bill Felmlee

In his day, would President Abraham Lincoln stop the carriage and visit Cindy Sheehan?

One would think so. One would hope so. During these times, it is often hard to believe that Abe Lincoln, one of the greatest leaders in our nation’s history, was also the first Republican President, “the father of the Republican Party.”

I watched Monday’s Daily Show and cringed when I saw Mrs. Sheehan holding up a sign while President Bush and his motorcade sped past. It reminded me of a church sermon I heard years ago, about Lincoln holding the hand of a mortally wounded soldier. I wondered if Bush had Lincoln’s fortitude?

Thanks to the internet, I found the story of Lincoln’s act of kindness. One may think that this story may be exaggerated, especially since the source is unknown. Yet, I cannot help but believe that President Lincoln may have done so:

President Abraham Lincoln who often visited field hospitals to talk with wounded soldiers during the Civil War. Once, doctors pointed out a young soldier who was near death and Lincoln went over to his bedside.
Is there anything I can do for you?” asked the president.

The soldier obviously didn’t recognize Lincoln, and with some effort he was able to whisper, “Would you please write a letter to my mother?”

A pen and paper were provided and the president carefully began to write down what the young man was able to say:

“My dearest mother, I was badly hurt while doing my duty. I’m afraid I’m not going to recover. Don’t grieve too much for me, please. Kiss Mary and John for me. May God bless you and father.”

The soldier was too weak to continue, so Lincoln signed the letter for him and added, “Written for your son by Abraham Lincoln.”

The young man asked to see the note and was astonished when he discovered who had written it. “Are you really the president?” he asked.

“Yes, I am,” Lincoln replied quietly. Then he asked if there was anything else he could do.

“Would you please hold my hand?” the soldier asked. “It will help to see me through to the end.”

In the hushed room, the tall, gaunt president took the boy’s hand in his and spoke warm words of encouragement until death came. (author and date unknown)

There is extensive documentation of Lincoln visiting battlefield hospitals in Virginia and Maryland. No doubt, he saw first hand the immediate consequences of warfare. I do not believe that Bush could stomach what Lincoln saw.

If Lincoln repeatedly subjected himself to the smell of death, then why can’t Bush at least visit a grieving mother?

Will Americans in 2105 be reading and reflecting on how President Bush “got on with his life…went on a bike ride…took a nap, etc.”, and dismissed an opportunity to meet with a grieving mother of a KIA veteran? Or will this story be lost in time?

I thought this piece was excellent. Obviously politics came second to Lincoln in this regard.

She is returning to Crawford according to information out there today, so this break is not likely to steer attention away from her protest completely. An interesting development I became aware of just recently:

Bush supporters create opposing camp

CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) — A pro-Bush camp with a “God Bless Our President!” banner sprung up downtown Saturday, countering the anti-war demonstration started by a fallen soldier’s mother two weeks ago near President Bush’s ranch.

The camp is named “Fort Qualls,” in memory of Marine Lance Cpl. Louis Wayne Qualls, 20, who died in Iraq last fall.

“If I have to sacrifice my whole family for the sake of our country and world, other countries that want freedom, I’ll do that,” said the soldier’s father, Gary Qualls, a friend of the local business owner who started the pro-Bush camp. He said his 16-year-old son now wants to enlist, and he supports that decision.

Qualls’ frustration with the anti-war demonstrators erupted last week when he removed a cross bearing his son’s name that was among hundreds the group had put up along the road to Bush’s ranch.

Qualls called the protesters’ views disrespectful to soldiers, and said he had to yank out two more crosses after protesters kept replacing them.

Cindy Sheehan, whose 24-year-old son, Army Spc. Casey Sheehan, died last year in Iraq, started the anti-war demonstration along the roadside on August 6. “Camp Casey” has since grown to about 100 core participants, and hundreds more from across the nation have visited.

Sheehan vowed to remain there until Bush agreed to meet with her or until his five-week-long vacation ended, but she flew to Los Angeles last week after her 74-year-old mother had a stroke. Her mother has some paralysis but is in good spirits, and if she improves, Sheehan might return to Texas in a few days, some demonstrators said. (Full story)

In her absence the rest of the group will keep camping out for the unlikely chance to question the president about the war that has claimed the lives of about 1,850 U.S. soldiers.

Bush has said he sympathizes with Sheehan but won’t change his schedule to meet with her. She and other families met with Bush about two months after Casey Sheehan died, before she became a vocal opponent of the war.

Large counter-protests were held in a ditch near Sheehan’s site a week after she arrived. Since then, a few Bush supporters have stood in the sun holding signs for several hours each day.

Bill Johnson, a local gift shop owner who created “Fort Qualls,” said he wanted to offer a larger, more convenient place for Bush supporters to gather.

He and others at “Fort Qualls” have asked for a debate with those at the Crawford Peace House, which is helping Sheehan.

It’s unclear if that will happen. But a member of Gold Star Families for Peace, co-founded by Sheehan and made up of relatives of fallen soldiers, said her group would not participate.

“We’re asking for a meeting with the president, period,” said Michelle DeFord, whose 37-year-old son, Sgt. David W. Johnson, was in the Army National Guard from Oregon when he was killed in Iraq last fall. “We don’t want to debate with people who don’t understand our point of view.”

This situation here screams of South Park’s 100th episode! The war protesters/supporters episode where Cartman goes back in time to 1776.

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16 Responses to Cindy Sheehan Debate

  1. Chris Austin says:

    Copied the discussion over to here from Vacation as that thread steered itself towards the Sheehan story.

    1. Paul says:
    Enjoy your vacation Chris.
    August 12th, 2005 at 7:27 am edit

    2. karl says:
    Vacation?? What think you’re the prsident or something?
    August 12th, 2005 at 10:57 am edit

    3. karl says:
    A thought on Sheehan. Why didn’t the president just meet with her? My guess would be he has a little free time one cannot clear brush 24/7.

    In addition it seems like members of his own party agree that it is time to leave Iraq, right thinker has made that argument numerous times. Unleashing the attack dogs was not a good way to deal with this situation.
    August 12th, 2005 at 11:53 am edit

    4. karl says:
    Seems that the whole problem for Bush is the changing reasons for the war. When the war first started Saddam Hussien was an “iminent” threat who had to be dealth with. If that was the real reason than why are we still there? I have a feeling that is a discussion that Mr Bush does not want to have.
    August 12th, 2005 at 2:07 pm edit

    5. karl says:
    Realty bites:

    From the washington post:
    ”‘We set out to establish a democracy, but we’re slowly realizing we will have some form of Islamic republic,’ said another U.S. official familiar with policymaking from the beginning, who like some others interviewed would speak candidly only on the condition of anonymity. ‘That process is being repeated all over.’”

    August 14th, 2005 at 9:59 am edit

    6. Paul says:
    I am truely sorry for Ms. Sheehan’s loss. However, most of the parents who have lost children in Iraq don’t seem to be making media spectacles of themselves. Why not?
    August 15th, 2005 at 6:16 am edit

    7. karl says:
    Paul:
    Some people grieve silentely and some do not. The same can be said of certain countries, for example when terrorist attacked, England they worked towards solving the problem, but seem to be doing it quietely. Other countries might be a little more vocal about their suffering.

    Personally I think Sheehan has a right to excercise free speech and say whatever she wants. Just like the president has a right not to meet with her. What I find hard to understand is why people are attacking her,( I am not saying that you are attacking her, but some right-wing commentators are) she has an opinion and is doing what she thinks is best to express it. What could possibly be more american?

    Plus I really think Bush should spend a half hour with her and defuse the situation.
    August 15th, 2005 at 2:10 pm edit

    8. Right Thinker says:
    I’m back from attending the funeral for my Father who passed suddenly and unexpectedly on Aug. 4. He passed in his sleep which is how we all should go but it was just so unexpected. This is a good topic for me to get started with…

    Why didn’t the president just meet with her? My guess would be he has a little free time one cannot clear brush 24/7.

    He already met with her. Her family has met with Bush as did many other families so it is very odd that she wants more benefit than what the others got. Why does she deserve more?

    Personally I think Sheehan has a right to excercise free speech and say whatever she wants.

    I agree with this.

    What I find hard to understand is why people are attacking her

    As I agree she has the right to free speach she also has to live with the effects of that speech. They attack her because she has turned her son’s death into a media spectacle in an effort to calm her sorrow. She is destroying the memory of her son, the life he chose and the public’s memory of him.

    The freedom of speech is not also the freedom from responsibility for what you say. These “right-wing” commentators are free to respond to her attacks and since she is using her dead son to push an agenda she has set the stage for how the dialogue progresses. “Right-wing” commentators also benefit from freedom of speach.

    Plus I really think Bush should spend a half hour with her and defuse the situation.

    When he met with her the first time it didn’t solve anything, why do you think a 2nd, 3rd or 4th meeting will?

    She is a tool of the ACLU, MoveOn and other liberal attack groups now. She has an agenda to push so it isn’t about her son anymore, it’s about blaming Bush for what Saddam Hussein did.
    August 15th, 2005 at 4:51 pm edit
    Right Thinker says:

    Seems that the whole problem for Bush is the changing reasons for the war.

    The reasons never changed there was about 20 of them but liberals could only remember 1 or 2 at a time so when Bush went from WMD to stability Dems said “WHAT ABOUT WMD?” and when Bush added humanitarian Dems said “WHAT ABOUT STABILITY?”

    The reasons are the same now as they were then except that the WMDs were either all used up on his own people or the Syrians were able to get them all out by the time we arrived.

    However, most of the parents who have lost children in Iraq don’t seem to be making media spectacles of themselves. Why not?

    Mayb she expected her son to get all the benefits of the military such as the G.I. Bill, medical coverage, skills and money without any of the risk. It’s sad that the boy was courageous and had a mind for the future and the mother is destroying all that for a liberal agenda.

    Celebrate his life, don’t tear down everything he stood for. That is what turns my stomach in this whole thing.

    August 15th, 2005 at 8:26 pm edit

    9. karl says:

    Right-thinker:
    First, sorry for your loss, I hope you are doing well.

    Good point about free speech it cuts both ways, and generally in order to have a spectacle you need spectaters and some of them are going to disagree with you. People should not hide behind their victim status to avoid critisism.

    As far as tearing down everything he stood for, you have to figure that Sheehans kid was willing to die for a cause he believed in, and he learned that from somewhere. In other words she is standing up for a cause she believes in and I don’t see how that hurts her soms memory.
    August 16th, 2005 at 1:59 pm edit

    10. Right Thinker says:

    First, sorry for your loss, I hope you are doing well.

    Thank you very much, I’ve been better, it just takes time.

    In other words she is standing up for a cause she believes in and I don’t see how that hurts her soms memory.

    I rarely see Casey’s name anywhere, it all seems to be about Cindy’s political views. Casey re-enlisted to go back so he felt very strongly that the war isn’t a lie, isn’t a fraud and that we are doing great things over there. Casey believed strongly enough to risk his life that going to Iraq is the right thing and, sadly, Cindy is saying he died for a lie, died for nothing, died for oil. Brutal.
    August 16th, 2005 at 4:03 pm edit

    11. karl says:
    RT:
    To me she seems a bit like a mom blaming the OD of her child on a pusher, her kid may have enjoyed drugs but in the end they got him killed.

    Grieving mothers are a double edged sword, the million mom marchers made me want to vote republican, evidentely they made a lot of people vote republican, but at the same time they are able to get a lot of publicity so both parties use them. Personally I get tired of people playing the victim card, that is why right now I admire the british, they refused to be victims afer the subway bombings, right now I think America could use some of that stiff upper lip. We seem to have created victim celebritys, for example the aruba thing.

    In a country with free speech and ratings driven news I have a feeling we are going to get more stuff like this.

    If sheehan were my mom I don’t think I would be mad at her, I am kind of used to my mom telling me I do dumb things and if she can get a national platform more power to her.
    August 16th, 2005 at 5:09 pm edit

    12. Right Thinker says:

    To me she seems a bit like a mom blaming the OD of her child on a pusher, her kid may have enjoyed drugs but in the end they got him killed.

    HAHA, technically a great analogy but I think Casey had a pride of duty and a sense of doing good works that led him to military service.

    We seem to have created victim celebritys, for example the aruba thing.

    Absolutely, I see it in the insurance business. There aren’t any accidents anymore, it’s always someone’s fault that something happened and we as a society feel the need to take revenge on those determined at fault. Doctors can’t save everyone, it’s impossible. Some idiot is going to drink the gasoline irregardless of the sticker that says not to.

    In a country with free speech and ratings driven news I have a feeling we are going to get more stuff like this.

    I see speech getting more curtailed, not by government but by special interests. What ever a Republican says some liberal is going to say it’s racist. The new strategy to combat speech we don’t like is to label it racist or sexist or insensitive thereby removing scrutiny of the message itself. Vicente Fox says Mexicans take jobs Blacks don’t want and the uproar was deafening until Louis Farrakahn says “he’s right.”

    Speech currently is in it’s most fragile state in our history, in my opinion.
    August 16th, 2005 at 6:47 pm edit

    13. karl says:
    RT:
    Almost no matter what you say you are going to offend someone and unfortunately even if you are right it is no excuse.

    As far as always blaming somone else, sometimes bad things just happen and no one can stop it, but people keep looking to the government to prevent all bad things. Personally I blame the right-wing pundits for politizing everything.

    You work in the insurance biz? No wonder you want a cap on damage awards.
    August 16th, 2005 at 7:51 pm edit

    14. Right Thinker says:

    Almost no matter what you say you are going to offend someone and unfortunately even if you are right it is no excuse.

    Are you saying that there is no excuse for offending people or no excuse for censoring speech?

    As far as always blaming somone else, sometimes bad things just happen and no one can stop it, but people keep looking to the government to prevent all bad things.

    Not everyone looks to the government, not Republicans in general nor libertarians and few independants. The big government fix all is a liberal position and it is on the decline.

    Personally I blame the right-wing pundits for politizing everything.

    Right-wing pundits are reactionary in that they respond to the accusations and attacks from others. O’Rieley, for example, doesn’t make breaking news or unprecedented stands on obscure issues but opines on the foolishness of others, usually the NYT.

    By the time the right-wing pundits are involved what ever it is has already been politicized. Why else would they be talking about it? Remember, Republicans are constantly under attack by the liberal machine so I see their dialogue as just responses to political challenges.

    You work in the insurance biz? No wonder you want a cap on damage awards.

    Did I say I wanted a cap on damage awards? I do want penalties for frivilous lawsuits and I’m for limiting attorneys fees in class action suits and the like. I don’t like it when a lady gives birth after 6-9 months of no pre-natal care and then successfully sues the doctor for any problems the crack baby has. I also think that a child who tries to use superman underoos to fly from the roof of his house is S.O.L.
    August 17th, 2005 at 2:13 am edit

    15. karl says:
    RT:
    You mean Underoos don’t make you fly.

    As far as conservative pundits go it seems to me that conservatives are better at talking about the issues of the day, I think it is smart in that it gets them more readers or viewers. For example fox news’s obsession with white missing women. The problem is that it gives the impression that governement can fix everything.

    Right now I would say conservatives are the one looking for government fixxes. For example, the war on drugs is all about trying to make people do something that is better for themselves through laws. Rick Santorums entire book is about encouraging people to live in a certain way. Abstinence education is all about preventing pre-marital sex, and keeping people from using birth control.

    Terri Schiavo was all about trying to offer a politcal solution to a medical problem.

    August 17th, 2005 at 11:45 am edit

    16. Right Thinker says:

    You mean Underoos don’t make you fly.

    Just to the ER.

    The problem is that it gives the impression that governement can fix everything.

    I see it as media taking charge in an investigation and shows a lack of faith in the law enforcement community.

    For example, the war on drugs is all about trying to make people do something that is better for themselves through laws.

    Maybe spiritual laws and the aid of religious groups but the only laws Republicans seem to support are prison terms for drug offenders.

    Rick Santorums entire book is about encouraging people to live in a certain way.

    Again, not government intervention but moral intervention. Throw in some states rights and your on target.

    Terri Schiavo was all about trying to offer a politcal solution to a medical problem.

    Actually, it was about the sactity of human life and challenging governmental proceedures that give an unfit guardian a fiduciary trust. Like allowing Michael Jackson to adopt young boys.
    August 18th, 2005 at 3:01 am edit

    17. Chris Austin says:
    Right – sorry about your loss.
    August 19th, 2005 at 3:36 am edit

    18. Right Thinker says:
    Thanks, I appreciate it. You talk to someone one day and then you can never talk to them again. You have to get as much in now while you can.
    August 19th, 2005 at 4:49 pm edit

    Source

  2. karl says:

    I wonder if the right-wing smear machine will start on the Tillmans next.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/08/23/MNG66EBQ5V1.DTL&feed=rss.news

  3. karl says:

    I regret that I have but one son to give for my country:

    From the AP
    CRAWFORD, Texas— A patriotic camp with a “God Bless Our President!” banner sprung up downtown Saturday, countering the anti-war demonstration started by a fallen soldier’s mother two weeks ago near President Bush’s ranch.The camp is named “Fort Qualls,” in memory of Marine Lance Cpl. Louis Wayne Qualls, 20, who died in Iraq last fall.”If I have to sacrifice my whole family for the sake of our country and world, other countries that want freedom, I’ll do that,” said the soldier’s father, Gary Qualls, a friend of the local business owner who started the pro-Bush camp. He said his 16-year-old son now wants to enlist, and he supports that decision.

    This guy seems to want one of those $100,000 death benefits very badely.

  4. I wonder if the right-wing smear machine will start on the Tillmans next.

    Why? Are they making a national spectacle of themselves while discracing the memory and life of their son?

    This guy seems to want one of those $100,000 death benefits very badely.

    What $100,000 death benfit? You think 100k covers the cost of raising a child to 21 years old? Where are you from, Mexico? Besides, it’s liberals who are always looking for handouts from the government.

    I will say I dare not jest about the deaths of those who made the ultimate sacrafice for my freedom and safety. This family deserves 100k a year for the sacrafice their son made for our country.

    Sheehan could learn a lot about humanity and respect from the Qualls family.

  5. Chris Austin says:

    Karl: I wonder if the right-wing smear machine will start on the Tillmans next.

    RT: Why? Are they making a national spectacle of themselves while discracing the memory and life of their son?

    You be the judge:
    http://deadissue.com/archives/2005/05/27/pat-tillmans-parents-abandon-script/

    I’m sure there are new quotes, new stories, but I’m fully into an investment info dump…scouring and researching, I’ll have some stock and fund picks for the site shortly.

    Football is almost at the regular season, so I’ll be posting my weekly picks as well. Going to ‘diversify’ the site a bit based on what I’m engrossed in at the moment. The housing market is still climbing, but people who know are hinting at the bubble bursting at some point, so the $$ we had saved for a down payment has to get working for us.

  6. You be the judge

    I say nay.

  7. Football is almost at the regular season, so I’ll be posting my weekly picks as well.

    I know I say every year that I will pay attention to football this season but this time I really, really mean it. Anyone need any bets placed?

  8. Chris Austin says:

    Thought you’d never ask.

  9. karl says:

    I am surprised Vegas does not have a team yet, every now and again I hear rumors that the Rockies are going to move there, somewhere their has to be a football team with poor attendance that would like to go to vegas.

  10. Vegas can’t have a sports team, too much fear of fixing and other illegal shennanigans.

  11. karl says:

    But they did so well when UNLV was a powerhouse, I cannot see why anyone would worry about that now. 🙂

    Is that really the reason? Anymore so much of the sports betting industry is offshore, it does not seem like Vegas would be any more of a problem than anywhere else.

    If Vegas gets the Rockies maybe Pete Rose could be the manager. 🙂

  12. Is that really the reason? Anymore so much of the sports betting industry is offshore, it does not seem like Vegas would be any more of a problem than anywhere else.

    Proximity is the issue, the off shore people have to make calls, book flights, rent hotel rooms, gain access and intimidate players and their families.

    If the betting and teams are already here this it’s a matter of driving down the road to intimidate player and their families.

    If Vegas gets the Rockies maybe Pete Rose could be the manager.

    Wow, a double loss for Vegas. Football is my thing anyway :- )

  13. karl says:

    The # 1 song on the country chart is “god bless cindy sheehan”

    http://www.soundclick.com/genres/charts.cfm?genre=Country

    If the country music crowd is getting behind her I am thinking the Repubs might really want to end this fiasco

  14. karl says:

    I think unless you are raised on baseball it is hard to get into it, I go sometimes, but I really don’t care who wins.

    Who is your team in football? My girlfreind is a big eagles fan so I rute for them in self defense.

    BTW please take the Rockies, their home games mess up traffic and it is not like the Broncos where they only have 8 home games, almost everyday all summeer lower downtown is a mess.

  15. The # 1 song on the country chart is “god bless cindy sheehan”

    What the hell is soundclick.com? Has anyone other than the 23 people who voted for this song ever heard of this? I doubt some obscure dot com startup has it’s finger on the pulse of country music fans.

    I think unless you are raised on baseball it is hard to get into it, I go sometimes, but I really don’t care who wins.

    I concur and even then it’s tough to stay with it. It’s just soo boring and the players are paid soo much and it takes up soo much space.

    Who is your team in football? My girlfreind is a big eagles fan so I rute for them in self defense.

    If you learn one thing in the financial services industry, it’s Compliance. Being from Seattle, I sadly have to say I throw my hope away every year on the Seahawks.

    BTW please take the Rockies

    Throw in about 30 million cubic feet of water rights and you’ve got a deal.

  16. karl says:

    I am pretty sure vegas has more water than we do, at least you guys sure have a lot more fountains.

    To bad the seahawks are not in the AFC west anymore, although now don’t they get to play the 49ers twice? that should be like two byes.

    As for the song it is pretty bad.

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