From: Howard Dean
Subject: I agree with George Bush
Dear Fellow Democrat,
Politics drove someone in the White House to do a treacherous, potentially criminal thing: a senior administration official leaked the identity of a covert CIA operative. They endangered the agent’s life and compromised our national security in a time of war.
Here’s what former president George H.W. Bush said about that kind of crime: “Even though I’m a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious of traitors.” That’s from a speech on April 26, 1999.
I agree. But as it became clear this week that Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove is a subject of the criminal investigation into the leak, the second Bush administration has gone silent. And its operatives have launched a cover-up and smear campaign against anyone raising questions.
This is bigger than politics — every American should agree that this administration needs to come clean immediately about this leak, and any White House official’s role in it. The only way to pressure this administration is to show that Americans will not tolerate this — and that every American regardless of party will unite and publicly demand that they come clean:
www.democrats.org/comeclean
We will publish comments from Republicans, Democrats and independents across the country — demonstrating that our party won’t play politics with this, but keeping the pressure on this administration to do the right thing. And we will do it until they come clean.
When former President Bush made the remarks above, he wasn’t speaking as a Republican. He wasn’t even speaking as a former president — he was speaking as a former CIA director who understands the sacrifice of our covert operatives and the danger of their work.
What happened here is even worse than what former President Bush describes. That’s because the leak was not an accident — it was part of a campaign to try to discredit anyone, including those inside the CIA, who questioned the administration’s claims about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.
Other former CIA officials agree. Three former operatives (who are also registered Republicans) gave this joint statement in testimony on October 24, 2003: “This has set a sickening precedent. The ‘senior Administration officials’ who did this have warned all U.S. intelligence officers and the Intelligence Community that any one individual may be compromised if providing information or factual analysis the White House does not like.”
This is a serious situation — it goes to the heart of our national security, and what kind of standards we have for those entrusted with secret and potentially dangerous information. Forward this message to everyone you know — Republican, Democrat, independent — and ask them to add their name to the list of Americans demanding this administration come clean:
www.democrats.org/comeclean
You don’t have to be a former intelligence official to understand the implications of this crime.
Here’s what former Republican Party chairman Ed Gillespie had to say on ‘Hardball’ on September 30, 2003: “I think if the allegation is true, to reveal the identity of an undercover CIA operative — it’s abhorrent, and it should be a crime, and it is a crime.” Asked by MSNBC’s Chris Matthews if it would be worse than Watergate, he said, “Yeah, I suppose in terms of the real world implications of it. It’s not just politics.”
George W. Bush said when this leak became public that he “welcomed the investigation” and called the leak a “criminal action.” He pledged that anyone found to be the source would be “taken care of”.
But the New York Times reported that when asked yesterday if he would fire Karl Rove, the question was met with a “stony silence”.
Will George W. Bush keep his word and demand that everyone in his administration uphold the trust of their office? This is his chance to rise above politics and do the right thing for our security and for our country.
Our party will rise above politics by asking all Americans, regardless of party, to publicly ask the administration to come clean about this serious situation:
www.democrats.org/comeclean
Please get this message out to as many people as possible. Americans of all political persuasions should agree that we need to get the truth — and take responsibility for publicly demanding it.
Thank you.
Governor Howard Dean, M.D.
Chairman, Democratic National Committee
Watergate, Iran-Contra, this – – – what has been done by Democrats that compares?
Republicans are condoning criminal behavior here…and rapists/murderers get protection from the law working as it should. I hear this tired old line all the time from Republicans who can’t or don’t want to debate the facts.
Well, why don’t we let the investigation finish before you say republicans are condoning criminal behavior? I don’t think any thing criminal has been done…at most it was unethical to even repeat the rumor that was going around in Washington, even though Rove new Tenet was going to be commenting on the issue later that day. In all honesty, do you think FROM THE EVIDENCE we have been given that Rove was trying to get back at Wilson? Cooper called him on to talk about welfare…and Cooper changed the subject to WMD’s. You seem to believe that Miller is the key to this investigation, so I’ll give it to you that it is possible for this to be more than it seems right now. But more than likely, it’s not going to amount to much, I just think its foolish to draw a line in the sand and point to insanely flimsy evidence as proof. But that seems to be the democratic mantra, hope you don’t end up with egg on your face…
But the New York Times reported that when asked yesterday if he would fire Karl Rove, the question was met with a “stony silence”.
Was Rove found guilty yesterday and I didn’t hear about it? Why do liberals always ignore the civil rights of anyone they disagree with?
Republicans are condoning criminal behavior here
Who was convicted by trial of committing a crime?
Watergate was a break and entry followed by a cover-up. Iran-Contra was the support for anti-communist groups that liberals wanted defeated by the communists. Remember, liberals have always supported communism.
what has been done by Democrats that compares?
Bill Clinton. Need I say more? How about Hillary Clinton? How about John Kerry?
And? Those are names, I’m talking about crimes. What have Democrats done that compares with Iran-Contra?
A long list of people during Watergate…some of whom are making money as analysts on FoxNews and MSNBC now. Oliver North is on FoxNews.
And this case is about the compromising of a CIA operation for the sake of smearing a political opponent. Years of work and money went into this, and with one phone call and subsequent article from Novak, it was ruined.
Iran-Contra was behind why we got attacked on 9/11…selling arms to third world countries who had no business with them in the first place, and compromising our morals for the whims of scumbags in high places. Kind of like what we’re doing today.
I’m not sure about Miller and her connection to Rove or the Plame thing, but I have strong feelings about her reporting in the weeks leading up to the Iraq invasion and that year plus prior. She and her editors at the NYTimes laundered the neo-con bullshit in the leadup to war.
I’ve got an article about to go up – in under an hour.
Plame and her husband have been stateside since 1997, even if plame was undercover, she wasn’t stationed abroad with in 5 years of the disclosure. So criminality is very flemsy, the law on this subject is very narrow, and there is a large amount of doubt that Plame’s name was even being protected. I’ve heard no other implications about how her name has effected on a current undercover agent…but obviously Fitzgerald is presuing a criminal investigation, if he is going so far as to lock up Miller. All the president is asking for is for people to stop politicizing a ongoing investigation, let the final report come out before you condemn anyone.
Went into what? Keeping Plames name secret? Novak wrote the article…its confusing for me to here about Cooper and Miller, this just doesn’t make sense, did Novak not release his sources? Where his sources Miller and Cooper…so..confusing.
DI: And? Those are names, I’m talking about crimes. What have Democrats done that compares with Iran-Contra?
William Jefferson Clinton- Impeached by the House of Representatives over allegations of perjury and obstruction of justice, but acquitted by the Senate. Scandals include Whitewater – Travelgate Gennifer Flowersgate – Filegate – Vince Fostergate – Whitewater Billing Recordsgate – Paula Jonesgate- Lincoln Bedroomgate – Donations from Convicted Drug and Weapons Dealersgate – Lippogate – Chinagate – The Lewinsky Affair – Perjury and Jobs for Lewinskygate – Kathleen Willeygate – Web Hubbell Prison Phone Callgate – Selling Military Technology to the Chinesegate – Jaunita Broaddrick Gate – Lootergate – Pardongate
Edward Moore Kennedy – Democrat – U. S. Senator from Massachusetts. Pleaded guilty to leaving the scene of an accident, after his car plunged off a bridge on Chappaquiddick Island killing passenger Mary Jo Kopechne.
Barney Frank – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1981 to present. Admitted to having paid Stephen L. Gobie, a male prostitute, for sex and subsequently hiring Gobie as his personal assistant. Gobie used the congressman’s Washington apartment for prostitution. A move to expel Frank from the House of Representatives failed and a motion to censure him failed.
DNC – The Federal Election Commission imposed $719,000 in fines against participants in the 1996 Democratic Party fundraising scandals involving contributions from China, Korea and other foreign sources. The Federal Election Commission said it decided to drop cases against contributors of more than $3 million in illegal DNC contributions because the respondents left the country or the corporations are defunct.
Sandy Berger – Democrat – National Security Advisor during the Clinton Administration. Berger became the focus of a criminal investigation after removing highly classified terrorism documents and handwritten notes from the National Archives during preparations for the Sept. 11 commission hearings.
Robert Torricelli – Democrat – Withdrew from the 2002 Senate race with less than 30 days before the election because of controversy over personal gifts he took from a major campaign donor and questions about campaign donations from 1996.
James McGreevey – Democrat – New Jersey Governor . Admitted to having a gay affair. Resigned after allegations of sexual harassment, rumors of being blackmailed on top of fundraising investigations and indictments.
Jesse Jackson – Democrat – Democratic candidate for President. Admitted to having an extramarital affair and fathering a illegitimate child.
Gary Condit – Democrat – US Democratic Congressman from California. Condit had an affair with an intern. Condit, covered up the affair and lied to police after she went missing. No charges were ever filed against Condit. Her remains were discovered in a Washington DC park..
Sowande Ajumoke Omokunde – Democrat – the son of newly elected U.S. Rep. Gwen Moore, was booked on charges of criminal damage to property for allegedly slashing tires on 20 vans and cars rented by the Republican Party for use in Election Day voter turnout efforts.
Daniel David Rostenkowski – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Illinois from 1959 to 1995. Indicted on 17 felony charges- pleaded guilty to two counts of misuse of public funds and sentenced to seventeen months in federal prison.
Melvin Jay Reynolds – U.S. Representative from Illinois from 1993 to 1995. Convicted on sexual misconduct and obstruction of justice charges and sentenced to five years in prison.
Charles Coles Diggs, Jr. – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Michigan from 1955 to 1980. Convicted on eleven counts of mail fraud and filing false payroll forms- sentenced to three years in prison.
George Rogers – Democrat – Massachusetts State House of Representatives from 1965 to 1970. M000ember of Massachusetts State Senate from 1975 to 1978. Convicted of bribery in 1978 and sentenced to two years in prison.
Don Siegelman – Democrat Governor Alabama – indicted in a bid-rigging scheme involving a maternity-care program. The charges accused Siegelman and his former chief of staff of helping Tuscaloosa physician Phillip Bobo rig bids. Siegelman was accused of moving $550,000 from the state education budget to the State Fire College in Tuscaloosa so Bobo could use the money to pay off a competitor for a state contract for maternity care.
John Murtha, Jr. – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania. Implicated in the Abscam sting, in which FBI agents impersonating Arab businessmen offered bribes to political figures; Murtha was cited as an unindicted co-conspirator
Gerry Eastman Studds – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1973 to 1997. The first openly gay member of Congress. Censured by the House of Representatives for having sexual relations with a teenage House page.
James C. Green – Democrat – North Carolina State House of Representatives from 1961 to 1977. Charged with accepting a bribe from an undercover FBI agent, but was acquitted. Convicted of tax evasion in 1997.
Frederick Richmond – Democrat – U.S. Representative from New York from 1975 to 1982. Arrested in Washington, D.C., in 1978 for soliciting sex from a minor and from an undercover police officer – pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor. Also – charged with tax evasion, marijuana possession, and improper payments to a federal employee – pleaded guilty.
Raymond Lederer – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1977 to 1981. Implicated in the Abscam sting – convicted of bribery and sentenced to three years in prison and fined $20,000.
Harrison Arlington Williams, Jr. – Democrat – U.S. Senator from New Jersey from 1959 to 1970. Implicated in the Abscam sting. Allegedly accepted an 18% interest in a titanium mine. Convicted of nine counts of bribery, conspiracy, receiving an unlawful gratuity, conflict of interest, and interstate travel in aid of racketeering. Sentenced to three years in prison and fined $50,000.
Frank Thompson, Jr. – Democrat – U.S. Representative from New Jersey from 1955 to 1980. Implicated in the Abscam sting, convicted on bribery and conspiracy charges. Sentenced to three years in prison
Michael Joseph Myers – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1976 to 1980. Implicated in the Abscam sting – convicted of bribery and conspiracy; sentenced to three years in prison and fined $20,000; expelled from the House of Representatives on October 2, 1980.
John Michael Murphy – Democrat – U.S. Representative from New York from 1963 to 1981. Implicated in the Abscam sting. Convicted of conspiracy, conflict of interest, and accepting an illegal gratuity. Sentenced to three years in prison and fined $20,000.
John Wilson Jenrette, Jr – Democrat – U.S. Representative from South Carolina from 1975 to 1980. Implicated in the Abscam sting. Convicted on bribery and conspiracy charges and sentenced to prison
Neil Goldschmidt – Democrat – Oregon governor. Admitted to having an illegal sexual relationship with a 14-year-old teenager while he was serving as Mayor of Portland.
Alcee Lamar Hastings – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Florida. Impeached and removed from office as federal judge in 1989 over bribery charges.
Marion Barry – Democrat – mayor of Washington, D.C., from 1979 to 1991 and again from 1995 to 1999. Convicted of cocaine possession after being caught on videotape smoking crack cocaine. Sentenced to six months in prison.
Mario Biaggi – Democrat – U.S. Representative from New York from 1969 to 1988. Indicted on federal charges that he had accepted bribes in return for influence on federal contracts.Convicted of obstructing justice and accepting illegal gratuities. Tried in 1988 on federal racketeering charges and convicted on 15 felony counts.
Lee Alexander – Democrat – Mayor of Syracuse, N.Y. from 1970 to 1985. Was indicted over a $1.5 million kickback scandal. Pleaded guilty to racketeering and tax evasion charges. Served six years in prison.
Bill Campbell – Democrat – Mayor of Atlanta. Indicted and charged with fraud over claims he accepted improper payments from contractors seeking city contracts.
Frank Ballance – Democrat – Congressman North Carolina. Pleaded guilty to one charge of conspiracy to commit mail fraud and money laundering related to mishandling of money by his charitable foundation.
Hazel O’Leary – Democrat – Secretary of Energy during the Clinton Administration – O’leary took trips all over the world as Secretary with as many 50 staff members and at times rented a plane, which was used by Madonna during her concert tours.
Lafayette Thomas – Democrat – Candidate for Tennessee State House of Representatives in 1954. Sheriff of Davidson County, from 1972 to 1990. Indicted in federal court on 54 counts of abusing his power as sheriff. Pleaded guilty to theft and mail fraud; sentenced to five years in prison.
Mary Rose Oakar – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Ohio from 1977 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to two misdemeanor charges of funneling $16,000 through fake donors.
David Giles – Democrat – candidate for U.S. Representative from Washington in 1986 and 1990. Convicted in June 2000 of child rape.
Edward Mezvinsky – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Iowa from 1973 to 1977. Indicted on 56 federal fraud charges.
Lena Swanson – Democrat – Member of Washington State Senate in 1997. Pleaded guilty to charges of soliciting unlawful payments from veterans and former prisoners of war.
Abraham J. Hirschfeld – Democrat – candidate in Democratic primary for U.S. Senator from New York in 1974 and 1976. Offered Paula Jones $1 million to drop her sexual harassment lawsuit against President Bill Clinton. Convicted in 2000 of trying to hire a hit man to kill his business partner.
Henry Cisneros – Democrat – U.S. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development from 1993 to 1997. Pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of lying to the FBI.
James A. Traficant Jr. – Member of House of Representatives from Ohio. Expelled from Congress after being convicted of corruption charges. Sentenced today to eight years in prison for accepting bribes and kickbacks.
John Doug Hays – Democrat – member of Kentucky State Senate from 1980 to 1982 Found guilty of mail fraud for submitting false campaign reports stemming from an unsuccessful run for judge.
Henry J. Cianfrani – Democrat – Pennsylvania State Senate from 1967 to 1976. Convicted on federal charges of racketeering and mail fraud for padding his Senate payroll. Sentenced to five years in federal prison.
David Hall – Democrat – Governor of Oklahoma from 1971 to 1975. Indicted on extortion and conspiracy charges. Convicted and sentenced to three years in prison.
John A. Celona – Democrat – A former state senator was charged with the three counts of mail fraud. Federal prosecutors accused him of defrauding the state and collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars from CVS Corp. and others while serving in the legislature. Celona has agreed to plead guilty to taking money from the CVS pharmacy chain and other companies that had interest in legislation. Under the deal, Celona agreed to cooperate with investigators. He faces up to five years in federal prison on each of the three counts and a $250,000 fine
Allan Turner Howe – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Utah from 1975 to 1977. Arrested for soliciting a policewoman posing as a prostitute.
Jerry Cosentino – Democrat – Illinois State Treasurer. Pleaded guilty to bank fraud – fined $5,000 and sentenced to nine months home confinement.
Joseph Waggonner Jr. – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Louisiana from 1961 to 19 79. Arrested in Washington, D.C. for soliciting a policewoman posing as a prostitute
Albert G. Bustamante – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Texas from 1985 to 1993. Convicted in 1993 on racketeering and bribery charges and sentenced to prison.
Lawrence Jack Smith – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Florida from 1983 to 1993. Sentenced to three months in federal prison for tax evasion.
David Lee Walters – Democrat – Governor of Oklahoma from 1991 to 1995. Pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor election law violation.
James Guy Tucker, Jr. – Democrat – Governor of Arkansas from 1992 to 1996. Resigned in July 1996 after conviction on federal fraud charges as part of the Whitewater investigation.
Walter Rayford Tucker – Democrat – Mayor of Compton, California from 1991 to 1992; U.S. Representative from California from 1993 to 1995. Sentenced to 27 months in prison for extortion and tax evasion.
William McCuen – Democrat – Secretary of State of Arkansas from 1985 to 1995. Admitted accepting kickbacks from two supporters he gave jobs, and not paying taxes on the money. Admitted to conspiring with a political consultant to split $53,560 embezzled from the state in a sham transaction. He was indicted on corruption charges. Pleaded guilty to felony counts tax evasion and accepting a kickback. Sentenced to 17 years in prison.
Walter Fauntroy – Democrat – Delegate to U.S. Congress from the District of Columbia from 1971 to 1991. Charged in federal court with making false statements on financial disclosure forms. Pleaded guilty to one felony count and sentenced to probation.
Carroll Hubbard, Jr. – Democrat – Kentucky State Senate from 1968 to 1975 and U.S. Representative from Kentucky from 1975 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to conspiring to defraud the Federal Elections Commission and to theft of government property; sentenced to three years in prison.
Joseph Kolter – Democrat – member of Pennsylvania State House of Representatives from 1969 to 1982 and U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1983 to 1993. Indicted by a Federal grand jury on five felony charges of embezzlement at the U.S. House post office. Pleaded guilty.
Webster Hubbell – Democrat – Chief Justice of Arkansas State Supreme Court in 1983. Pleaded guilty to federal mail fraud and tax evasion charges – sentenced to 21 months in prison.
Nicholas Mavroules – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1979 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to charges of tax fraud and accepting gratuities while in office.
Carl Christopher Perkins – Democrat – Kentucky State House of Representatives from 1981 to 1984 and U.S. Representative from Kentucky from 1985 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to bank fraud in connection with the House banking scandal. Perkins wrote overdrafts totaling about $300,000. Pleaded guilty to charges of filing false statements with the Federal Election Commission and false financial disclosure reports. Sentenced to 21 months in prison.
Richard Hanna – Democrat – U.S. Representative from California from 1963 to 1974. Received payments of about $200,000 from a Korean businessman in what became known as the “Koreagate” influence buying scandal. Pleaded guilty and sentenced to federal prison.
Angelo Errichetti – Democrat – New Jersey State Senator was sentenced to six years in prison and fined $40,000 for his involvement in Abscam.
Daniel Baugh Brewster – Democrat – U.S. Senator from Maryland. Indicted on charges of accepting illegal gratuity while in Senate.
Thomas Joseph Dodd – Democrat – U.S. Senator from Connecticut. Censured by the Senate for financial improprieties, having diverted $116,000 in campaign and testimonial funds to his own use
Edward Fretwell Prichard, Jr. – Democrat – Delegate to Democratic National Convention from Kentucky. Convicted of vote fraud in federal court in connection with ballot-box stuffing. Served five months in prison.
Jerry Springer – Democrat – Resigned from Cincinnati City Council in 1974 after admitting to paying a prostitute with a personal check, which was found in a police raid on a massage parlor.
Guy Hamilton Jones, Sr. – Democrat -Arkansas State Senate. Convicted on federal tax charges and expelled from the Arkansas Senate.
Daniel Flood – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1945 to 1947, 1949 to 1953 and 1955 to 1980. Pleaded guilty to a conspiracy charge involving payoffs and sentenced to probation.
Otto Kerner, Jr – Democrat – Governor of Illinois from 1961 to 1968. While serving as Governor, he and another official made a gain of over $300,000 in a stock deal. Convicted on 17 counts of bribery, conspiracy, perjury, and related charges. Sentenced to three years in federal prison and fined $50,000.
George Crockett, Jr. – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Michigan. Served four months in federal prison for contempt of court following his defense of a Communist leader on trial for advocating the overthrow of the government.
Cornelius Edward Gallagher – Democrat – U.S. Representative from New Jersey from 1959 to 1873. Indicted in on federal charges of income tax evasion, conspiracy, and perjury
Mark B. Jimenez – Democrat fundraiser – sentenced to 27 months in prison on charges of tax evasion and conspiracy to defraud the United States and commit election financing offenses.
Bobby Lee Rush – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Illinois. As a Black Panther, spent six months in prison on a weapons charge.
Bolley ”Bo” Johnson – Democrat – Former Florida House Speaker – received a two-year term for tax evasion.
Roger L. Green – Democrat – Brooklyn Democrat Assemblyman. Pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor for accepting travel reimbursement for trips he did not pay for and was sentenced to fines and probation.
Gloria Davis – Democrat – Bronx assemblywoman. Pleaded guilty to second-degree bribe-taking
And also the most grotesque…
Democratic Party officials in East St. Louis, Illinois have been convicted of massive voter fraud in last November’s election. The local jury convicted them of, among other things, paying people to vote Democratic. This is, really, only the tip of the iceberg; still to come is an attempted murder trial arising out of the effort by a Democratic Party official to murder a witness who threatened to blow the whistle on the Democratic official’s corruption. Based on press accounts, I understand that in the attempted murder case, the prosecution will offer into evidence photographs that were shown to the Democratic Party official, which appeared to show the dead body of the witness whom the official had ordered murdered.
You don’t hear Barbara Boxer site this when she calls for election reform…
Do you have a link?
Well when the coverup was still in tact, Bush snd his staff had no problem talking about. Whether or not she was stateside doesn’t matter to most who understand this case, as regardless of the circumstances, you DON’T blow a CIA agent’s cover. Period
BREWSTER-JENNINGS! Michael, I’m baffled by how not a single rightie will say a word about this company. It’s obvious that I was refering to Brewster-Jennings in the article at the point you referenced.
I was talking about Hillary Clinton’s scandal regarding fund raising and John Kerry’s near(I say near to give the benefit of doubt) traitorous dealings during the Vietnam era.
But this seems insignificant after Michael’s comprehensive list. Bravo Michael, overkill, but bravo.
you DON’T blow a CIA agent’s cover.
I think the issue is “what cover?” and “who blew it?” If she wasn’t undercover then there was no cover to reveal, other than she was married and worked for the CIA. Unless she went by Velerie Plame as her undercover alias who could put the two together?
I’m still leaning towards witch hunt until some actual evidence surfaces.
DI: Well when the coverup was still in tact, Bush snd his staff had no problem talking about. Whether or not she was stateside doesn’t matter to most who understand this case, as regardless of the circumstances, you DON’T blow a CIA agent’s cover. Period
Well, if you understood this case, then you would know that the law says the person must have been in a foriegn place within 5 years of the disclosure, operating as a covert agent, and the CIA must be ACTIVELY concealing her name
I know I don’t understand this case and that is why I’m soo suspicious.
What everyone ignores is how this entire thing was started. The CIA launched this, filing the complaint with the Justice Department – so to them it constituted a breach of security.
Whether she was overseas or at her desk in Langley, if she was continuing to work with colleagues and contacts involved in the Brewster-Jennings operation, her clearance status would not be changed.
Michael,
So you don’t think anything criminal has been done with the outing of Ms. Plame? Well, you may want to consider the words of your beloved president before forming any final opinion. On October 6, 2003, Bush called the outing of Ms. Plame a “criminal action.”
So the choice is yours, Michael. Is Bush once more lying to the American people, telling them that a criminal action has occurred when in fact none have, or is he telling the truth for once in his damn life??? What’s your answer, Michael???
So the choice is yours, Michael. Is Bush once more lying to the American people, telling them that a criminal action has occurred when in fact none have, or is he telling the truth for once in his damn life??? What’s your answer, Michael???
Formulating a biased question to lead someone to the result you want does not further your cause. Bush is right, a criminal action has occurred, but it wasn’t committed by Rove. There’s my answer but I’ll let Michael form his own, as well should you.
or is he telling the truth for once in his damn life?
I’d like to see how you back up this statement, but I won’t hold my breath.
Right Thinking,
It was Michael who wrote,
“I don’t think any thing criminal has been done,” and you yourself furthered my cause by letting him know that you disagree with him. Thank you!
And as to Bush’s honesty, or lack thereof, you would do well to read The Lies of George W. Bush by David Corn, or simply type in ” Bush lies” in Google and peruse the 173,000 entries that appear.
I don’t believe that Ms. Plame’s ‘outing’ is criminal, if it was looked at in completed context of the law…she must have been stationed outside the U.S. within 5 years of the disclosure…she’s been in the U.S. since 1997, that one fact removes criminality. Look at the law, the consequences of her outing on other covert agents is what I might see as wrong doing …but it isn’t a part of any law. This is a serious matter to the president, and I would think that would confort you Herman, he’s letting us beat you guys up with facts..and not getting drag down to political partisanship…like the democratic party.
Leaking classified information is a crime, regardless of who it is.
It was Michael who wrote,
“I don’t think any thing criminal has been done,” and you yourself furthered my cause by letting him know that you disagree with him. Thank you!
I’m not sure what your thanking me for, I have my own opinions and freely express them. If thinking Rove is innocent and thinking that all this is a liberal witch hunt furthers your cause then, your welcome.
I am curious as to what your cause is.
The Lies of George W. Bush by David Corn
Why read it, the answer is in the title? And I’m sure that this David Corn is centrist author that had no ulterior motive or bias in writing this book (/sarcasm)
or simply type in ” Bush lies” in Google and peruse the 173,000 entries that appear.
Now that is science, typing a key word into google and counting the returns. 173,000 seems kinda light since liberals claim 60% of America is liberal. Shouldn’t there be millions of lunatic postings and websites out there?
So Michael believes that when George W. Bush told the American people that a “criminal action” occurred when Ms. Plame was outed, Bush was not telling the American people the truth. This despite the fact that Bush could easily have found out (from his own CIA) about what Michael is so concerned about: whether Ms. Plame had been abroad in the five years prior to being outed. (Note: not whether damage to the nation’s security had been done or whether someone’s career has been ruined, but simply whether Ms. Plame had been abroad since 1997). But Michael perhaps believes that the President of the United States is completely unable to find out if his own CIA gave Ms. Plame an overseas assignment; maybe Mr. Bush was spending too much time instead reading about pet goats. Or maybe Michael believes that Bush is too much of an idiot to understand the law as well as Michael can. But, on the other hand, maybe, just maybe, Bush as president knows something that you, Michael just don’t know about. Think about it, Michael. You still so confident Ms. Plame had not been abroad?
One thing Bush knows for sure is that he signed Executive Order 12958, which prohibits people like Rove from divulging classified information (even due to negligence). You might also want to consider, Michael, Title 18, United States Code, Section 641. http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20050715.html
Right Thinking,
I am surprised at you. First you indicate that you agree with Bush that a “criminal action” has occurred, and I thought I had an ally in trying to convince people that the outing of a CIA operative by at least 2 (Novak spoke of two) Bush Administration officials is a very serious matter. After all, you helped me out by letting Michael know that in your opinion a crime has taken place! But then you get schizophrenic on me, saying “all this is a liberal witch hunt.” I am just so disappointed.
I am surprised at you.
Wow, and all I was doing was sitting here minding my own business.
First you indicate that you agree with Bush that a “criminal action” has occurred
I still do but with all that I have read I think Rove is the victim of some sort of fraud. The crime is the leak of the CIA info and framing Rove as the perpetrator.
I thought I had an ally in trying to convince people that the outing of a CIA operative by at least 2 (Novak spoke of two) Bush Administration officials is a very serious matter.
This is where reality and fantasyland come together and you seem to be on a first name basis wih the border guards. I don’ have my passport on me.
The info has been proven to be already public by the time Rove was called and most likely duped.
After all, you helped me out by letting Michael know that in your opinion a crime has taken place!
I think Michael will still respect me for having my own opinion and not spewing forth liberal propaganda. I can see what he’s talking about with Rove and I respect his opinion as well.
But then you get schizophrenic on me, saying “all this is a liberal witch hunt.”
In college, all my instructors called that logic. The liberal smear machine with the smear master, Dean, at the wheel. Someone calls Rove asking about the worst kept secret regarding Democratic operatives (Wilson/Plame) in their effort to hurt Bush. And then liberals go apeshit over the scandal and demand the resignation of someone who has neither been tried nor convicted of any crime.
Thus, all this is a liberal witch hunt.
I am just so disappointed.
Then more bad news, it isn’t going to get any better from this point on.
Some helpful tips, I don’t read the NYT, MoveOn, DNC.org or anything like that. I try to draw conclusions from the facts which is why I like DeadIssue even if I draw different conclusions from the facts from Chris.
Also, the conservatives are more of a big tent group with many different points of view so I can understand your confusion that Michael and I don’t 100% agree on everything like you are used to seeing with the DNC and other liberal attack groups.
Hope this helps.
What have you read that’s made you think that Right? Do you think Matt Cooper set him up? If not, then I’m not sure of how he could be considered a victim in any way. He wasn’t forced to share classified information…he chose to share classified information. Government officials have gone to jail for much less in the past. And if Rove is as smart as everyone always says he is, I find it hard to think of him as a ‘victim’ in this situation.
Where is this proof Right? Can you post a source? If there’s a published article out there that predates Novak’s, I’d be convinced of this. Otherwise, it’s just RNC spin. The stormtroopers over at Right Thinking From the Left Coast were selling this as well, but none of them could produce a source when I asked them for it.
Interesting dynamic with this particular political battle is the amount of baseless claims being put out there by the right-wing. All day yesterday and Saturday I was asking them for proof that she was known to be an agent before Novak published his article, and the person either disappeared, or they just ignored my request.
The most scandalous accusation involves Mrs. Wilson in the backseat having sex with someone who wasn’t her husband. That one is floating around out there with no source that I know of. Regardless though, righties are eating it up like sharks.
The CIA made the complaint to the Justice Department and it went from there. Liberals had nothing to do with this being an issue right now.
HA! Yea…Deadissue is the shit!
Glad to have you here Herman!
Right Thinker,
Let’s see now, a “witch hunt,” is a hunt for evil sorceresses that, of course, don’t exist. So in saying it’s all a “witch hunt,” you’re saying that no crime occurred. But then you say that you agree with Bush that a crime did occur. Please tell your college professors that, alas, you’re entitled to a refund of your college tuition.
The name, “Valerie Plame,” didn’t just come to Michael Novak’s mind in a dream; no he mentions that two VERY REAL Bush Administration officials helped put it there. And regarding what happened, on July 21, 2003, Novak told this to Newsday:
“I didn’t dig it out, it was given to me,” he said. “They thought it was significant, they gave me the name and I used it.” I guess this is the point (or at least one of the points) where both you and I agree that a crime was committed. Now Rove admits that he spoke to Novak doesn’t he? But you’re much more ready than I am to believe that Novak told Rove about Ms. Plame, rather than the other way around. It’s quite possible that the truth will never be known. But if Rove so much as confirmed that Ms. Plame worked for the CIA, then he violated an executive order. Even if Novak told Rove about Ms Plame (and that is a might big “if”) the responsible thing for Rove to do would have been to instruct Novak to keep Ms. Plame’s identity a secret given that she might be a covert agent; but the Bush people play by a different set of rules.
And what about Mr. Cooper? Did Cooper ask for that “worst kept secret” about Mr. and Ms. Wilson, OR DID ROVE INSTEAD FLAT OUT TELL HIM???? At the end of their “double super secret” conversation, Cooper reports that Rove said to him, “I’VE ALREADY SAID TOO MUCH.” In your mind, just what the hell is this supposed to mean? Got any ideas? (or are you going to claim that you don’t believe Cooper?)
What have you read that’s made you think that Right?
That the reporter called Rove representing himself as interested in Social Security discussion but then changed the topic to Plame at the end. Who ever it was went to Rove with the info already in hand. So far it looks like 3 reporters, Novak, Miller and Cooper (that we knew of) knew what Rove didn’t and that is who Plame was. Also, Rove didn’t name Plame.
He wasn’t forced to share classified information…he chose to share classified information.
They have found that Rove didn’t share anything, that the reporters already knew about Plame.
Government officials have gone to jail for much less in the past.
Sandy Berger didn’t and that guy was an actual security risk, stuffing classified documents down his shorts so the public wouldn’t discover how he and Clinton helped get us to where we are now, but that’s another story.
If there’s a published article out there that predates Novak’s, I’d be convinced of this.
If you are limiting the only proof you’ll accept to articles published before an article that Novak didn’t publish, you will have effectively stuck your head in the sand.
The statements by Cooper, Novak and others state they already knew who Plame was and that shell company you like to bring up was a poorly designed CIA front.
Interesting dynamic with this particular political battle is the amount of baseless claims being put out there by the right-wing.
This entire issue about Rove is baseless and furoiusly propelled by the liberal elite. No transscripts of the conversation has been shown to demonstrate Rove deliberately released previously non-public information about the CIA. Where is the evidence from the left that Rove did anything illegal?
The most scandalous accusation involves Mrs. Wilson in the backseat having sex with someone who wasn’t her husband.
Wow, a real class act. I heard something about her making donations to the DNC and listing the CIA shell company and herself as the donors. Can she be prosecuted for blowing her own cover?
Liberals had nothing to do with this being an issue right now.
Liberals started this thing by playing politics with the fake Wilson fact finding trip that wasted tax payers money. Plame and Wilson conspired to attack Bush from under the cover of her expired cover agent status and now Democrats are forcing the issue irregardless of facts, trail or criminal conviction. This is all a liberal fueled attack campaign.
Let’s see now, a “witch hunt,” is a hunt for evil sorceresses that, of course, don’t exist.
Since I was born after the 1800s, society has come to regard the phrase “witch hunt” to mean events such as looking for something that isn’t there or finding a scape goat or passind the buck to someone who is expendable but innocent.
So, while I agree a crime may have been committed the left has focused on Rove as the witch irregardless of a lack of evidence, motive or an actual breach of law. Rove isn’t even the target of the investigation.
Liberals are desperate to get anything negative against the administration that they will go to any lengths to force conspiracy where there is none. I think this is a manefestation of the PEST syndrome.
Please tell your college professors that, alas, you’re entitled to a refund of your college tuition.
Why don’t I pass your name along to them, you might be able to use some help with the assembly of logical arguments and language use.
The name, “Valerie Plame,” didn’t just come to Michael Novak’s mind in a dream;
No, Novak and the others are reporters, investigative reporters. They don’t just sit around an office waiting for sources to call them with info. They go out and find answers to the weirder things in life like CIA shell companies making donations to the DNC and CIA agents using their real names on political donation forms.
But if Rove so much as confirmed that Ms. Plame worked for the CIA, then he violated an executive order.
What executive order would that be?
In your mind, just what the hell is this supposed to mean? Got any ideas?
Cooper already knew, he called Rove about it, remember? Someone told Cooper and company about Plame but the evidence doesn’t show it was Rove. Sorry man, you still have nothing.