By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN Published: June 15, 2005
Ever since Iraq’s remarkable election, the country has been descending deeper and deeper into violence. But no one in Washington wants to talk about it. Conservatives don’t want to talk about it because, with a few exceptions, they think their job is just to applaud whatever the Bush team does. Liberals don’t want to talk about Iraq because, with a few exceptions, they thought the war was wrong and deep down don’t want the Bush team to succeed. As a result, Iraq is drifting sideways and the whole burden is being carried by our military. The rest of the country has gone shopping, which seems to suit Karl Rove just fine.
Well, we need to talk about Iraq. This is no time to give up – this is still winnable – but it is time to ask: What is our strategy? This question is urgent because Iraq is inching toward a dangerous tipping point – the point where the key communities begin to invest more energy in preparing their own militias for a scramble for power – when everything falls apart, rather than investing their energies in making the hard compromises within and between their communities to build a unified, democratizing Iraq.
Our core problem in Iraq remains Donald Rumsfeld’s disastrous decision – endorsed by President Bush – to invade Iraq on the cheap. From the day the looting started, it has been obvious that we did not have enough troops there. We have never fully controlled the terrain. Almost every problem we face in Iraq today – the rise of ethnic militias, the weakness of the economy, the shortages of gas and electricity, the kidnappings, the flight of middle-class professionals – flows from not having gone into Iraq with the Powell Doctrine of overwhelming force.
Yes, yes, I know we are training Iraqi soldiers by the battalions, but I don’t think this is the key. Who is training the insurgent-fascists? Nobody. And yet they are doing daily damage to U.S. and Iraqi forces. Training is overrated, in my book. Where you have motivated officers and soldiers, you have an army punching above its weight. Where you don’t have motivated officers and soldiers, you have an army punching a clock.
Where do you get motivated officers and soldiers? That can come only from an Iraqi leader and government that are seen as representing all the country’s main factions. So far the Iraqi political class has been a disappointment. The Kurds have been great. But the Sunni leaders have been shortsighted at best and malicious at worst, fantasizing that they are going to make a comeback to power through terror. As for the Shiites, their spiritual leader, Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, has been a positive force on the religious side, but he has no political analog. No Shiite Hamid Karzai has emerged.
“We have no galvanizing figure right now,” observed Kanan Makiya, the Iraqi historian who heads the Iraq Memory Foundation. “Sistani’s counterpart on the democratic front has not emerged. Certainly, the Americans made many mistakes, but at this stage less and less can be blamed on them. The burden is on Iraqis. And we still have not risen to the magnitude of the opportunity before us.”
I still don’t know if a self-sustaining, united and democratizing Iraq is possible. I still believe it is a vital U.S. interest to find out. But the only way to find out is to create a secure environment. It is very hard for moderate, unifying, national leaders to emerge in a cauldron of violence.
Maybe it is too late, but before we give up on Iraq, why not actually try to do it right? Double the American boots on the ground and redouble the diplomatic effort to bring in those Sunnis who want to be part of the process and fight to the death those who don’t. As Stanford’s Larry Diamond, author of an important new book on the Iraq war, “Squandered Victory,” puts it, we need “a bold mobilizing strategy” right now. That means the new Iraqi government, the U.S. and the U.N. teaming up to widen the political arena in Iraq, energizing the constitution-writing process and developing a communications-diplomatic strategy that puts our bloodthirsty enemies on the defensive rather than us. The Bush team has been weak in all these areas. For weeks now, we haven’t even had ambassadors in Iraq, Afghanistan or Jordan.
We’ve already paid a huge price for the Rumsfeld Doctrine – “Just enough troops to lose.” Calling for more troops now, I know, is the last thing anyone wants to hear. But we are fooling ourselves to think that a decent, normal, forward-looking Iraqi politics or army is going to emerge from a totally insecure environment, where you can feel safe only with your own tribe.
Maybe it is time to use the D word as in Draft. Most people who serve seem to come out better for it, and it would give the whole country a stake in the outcome of this war.
Of course the problem is that right now the Iraq war is unwinnable. Without a clear objective, it would not matter how many soldgiers were there, but I guarantee you start seriously talking about a draft and most people will demand the president replace his pretty rhetoric with concrete attainable plans that do not involve Haliburton making billions.
I think the draft would be a disaster. That ship sailed over a year ago. Unless Bush can get out and say some things about the war that don’t sound like complete bull and turn around public perception, the staffing problems won’t change. And if you thought that unmotivated soldiers from the 60s and 70s led to a bad situation, I’d hate to see a drafted group of Generation-Y defending our freedom!
The future? Active duty soldiers will continue to be stoplossed until their ears bleed.
The Iraq issue is fading into the sunset, it’s time has come to drive it’s own destiny. They have had elections and the foreign insurgency is crumbling. It will be a matter of months before we are there for little more than a stop over. We’ll have a smaller version of Germany’s Ramstein base, Saddam will be found guilty and the Frech will still be spineless thugs and criminals.
Right Thinker says:
The Iraq issue is fading into the sunset, it’s time has come to drive it’s own destiny. They have had elections and the foreign insurgency is crumbling. It will be a matter of months before we are there for little more than a stop over. We’ll have a smaller version of Germany’s Ramstein base, Saddam will be found guilty and the Frech will still be spineless thugs and criminals.
Fox News didn’t have one story on Iraq from 8-10PM last night. I ‘monitored’ the station last night, and to them, there is no war.
We have to win this thing, but the GOP doesn’t seem interested in doing so now that it’s become difficult. Bush got us into this, so he should be acting like a leader right now.
Right:
sounds like you are saying it is time to cut and run. Are you channeling Nixon?
Fox News didn’t have one story on Iraq from 8-10PM last night. I ‘monitored’ the station last night, and to them, there is no war.
Good for them. I, personally, want to hear more about these abductions of late and see if I can gain some insight in to how I can keep my own children safe form harm.
I don’t need Iraq 24/7 and I get enough Iraq form the actual news so I don’t need to hear opinions and commentary from someone else about what they think about it. I already know what I think.
sounds like you are saying it is time to cut and run. Are you channeling Nixon?
HAHAHA, that’s great, Nixon. What I’m saying is the war is basically won, the foreigners and Baathists are on the way out, and things have been looking up for a long time. This fledgling democracy is on it’s way to bigger and better things.
Sure, Iran could invade a few years down the road or Iraq could split into smaller countries or who know what. The great thing is that they are getting the tools to decide their own direction and fate. I think liberals should stop hoping for Iraq to implode and just accept the fact that they have been wrong about a lot of thing for a very long time.
Sorry right, it looks like you are channeling Scott Mclellon:
E&P has the exchange between Terry Moran and Scott McClellan:
Q Scott, is the insurgency in Iraq in its ‘last throes’?
McCLELLAN: Terry, you have a desperate group of terrorists in Iraq that are doing everything they can to try to derail the transition to democracy. The Iraqi people have made it clear that they want a free and democratic and peaceful future. And that’s why we’re doing everything we can, along with other countries, to support the Iraqi people as they move forward….
Q But the insurgency is in its last throes?
McCLELLAN: The Vice President talked about that the other day — you have a desperate group of terrorists who recognize how high the stakes are in Iraq. A free Iraq will be a significant blow to their ambitions.
Q But they’re killing more Americans, they’re killing more Iraqis. That’s the last throes?
McCLELLAN: Innocent — I say innocent civilians. And it doesn’t take a lot of people to cause mass damage when you’re willing to strap a bomb onto yourself, get in a car and go and attack innocent civilians. That’s the kind of people that we’re dealing with. That’s what I say when we’re talking about a determined enemy.
Q Right. What is the evidence that the insurgency is in its last throes?
McCLELLAN: I think I just explained to you the desperation of terrorists and their tactics.
Q What’s the evidence on the ground that it’s being extinguished?
McCLELLAN: Terry, we’re making great progress to defeat the terrorist and regime elements. You’re seeing Iraqis now playing more of a role in addressing the security threats that they face. They’re working side by side with our coalition forces. They’re working on their own. There are a lot of special forces in Iraq that are taking the battle to the enemy in Iraq. And so this is a period when they are in a desperate mode.
Q Well, I’m just wondering what the metric is for measuring the defeat of the insurgency.
McCLELLAN: Well, you can go back and look at the Vice President’s remarks. I think he talked about it.
Q Yes. Is there any idea how long a ‘last throe’ lasts for?
McCLELLAN: Go ahead, Steve….
I really don’t think declaring victory and leaving a country in complete chaos is what Bush means by spreading democracy, then again with these guys who knows. Sounds like Bsh and Co are starting to feel the heat of public opinion going against them.
Oddly at this point abandoning Iraq might be the only choice, but calling it a victory seems like a stretch.
Violent crimes are decreasing stop hiding in your basement and go enjoy life
Violent crimes are decreasing stop hiding in your basement and go enjoy life
They don’t have basements in Vegas, the ground is way too rocky but if you think Vegas is a place where you can’t enjoy yourself, you a resadly mistaken.
Sorry right, it looks like you are channeling Scott Mclellon
Being part of an all-white, christian political party (except for all the African Americans, Hispanics, Cubans, Catholics, Jews, Baptists, Gays and Women) does not allow me to channel anyone as that is for the Devil!!!
What is the evidence that the insurgency is in its last throes?
It’s leaders are being rounded up, the borders are being patrolled so fewer insurgents can get it the country, the Iraqi people are fighting the insurgency themselves and even muslims have a level of barbarity that they won’t go past. The elections have been a success and other countries around the world are recognizing Iraq’s sovereign, non-dictator controlled status.
If your waiting until there is no crime in Iraq to declare a victory then you would also have to say America is in chaos because we have crime here too.
Friedman is a liberal and he wrote this article. I don’t think that liberals are hoping that Iraq implodes at all.
http://deadissue.com/archives/2005/05/20/operation-win-the-war/
I think that the proposing of ideas is perceived as something that it’s not.
I didn’t know this. So to dig out basements it would be like quary work? Do the houses have more attic space? I remember that movie ‘Pay it Forward’, and Hunt had the laundry room on the first level…where she hid her Vodka I think.
McClellan’s body runs on motor oil instead of blood. I’d have to say that White House Press Secretary is the last job I’d ever want to have. Right up there with driving around a waste truck and hitting up port-a-pottys with the shit sucker. Any of you guys remember that episode of ‘The X-Files’ with the creature that was a full grown fluke worm/human?
The situation in Iraq is more than normal crime, at least I have not noticed a rash of suicide bombers in the US. I think Cheney is testing the waters to see if the admin can declare victory and leave before Bush’s dismal polling numbers start toeffect the republican gravy train.
At this point I think anyone with an ounce of humanity would like to see Iraq become a success story. The problem is it cannot be done with the low level of troops there now. It is completely illogical to claim that because insurgents are killing more people they are losing.
I didn’t know this. So to dig out basements it would be like quary work? Do the houses have more attic space? I remember that movie ‘Pay it Forward’, and Hunt had the laundry room on the first level…where she hid her Vodka I think.
Yeah, the dirt is packed from the heat and all this stuff called caliche(sp) pronounced cal-e-chee. It was a shallow sea at one time and the run off since has taken much of the top soil and left a rocky layer. Then when you do dig the dust up is terrible, the dust doesn’t settle, just hangs in the air.
this seems to fit with with this post, sort of the surrender with honor idea:
By Matthew Yglesias
One big issue hanging over Iraq policy is the question of “emboldening” the bad guys over there. It’s a valid concern. And it’s part, I think, of what makes choosing an appropriate moment for withdrawal so important. You’ve got a complicated political calendar over there which in many ways works in our advantage. Thanks to the elections in late January, you had a moment of opportunity where we could have started heading for the exit on a high note, from a position of strength, based on the premise that we’d accomplished our main goals and it was time to start disentangling ourselves. Now, that window has closed. Future windows will open, however, as the Iraqi government promulgates a new constitution, as that constitution goes to the voters in a referendum, as there’s an election to compose the post-constitution government, and as that new government is seated.
The alternative to seizing some moment during that broad window is going to be quite bad.
Continue Reading Here…
I got this from TPM cafe, although I would argue that the bad guys are already emboldened. It is sort of like now that the Patriots have solved the colts offence maybe other teams will know how to play them, and not be so scared. That last part is the Broncos fan in me talking.
Karl – thanks for that link! I’m reading a lot of the material on that site.
Can you post your email address or send it to me at [email protected]? I’ve got something I want to discuss with you.
That last part is the Broncos fan in me talking.
There is a football team called the Broncos? Have they ever had any good players worth mentioning?
That catch over the middle where Marvin Harrison dove for it, hit the deck, got back up and ran it in for the touchdown really marked a shift in the dominance of that team from what I saw.
You can put Ty Law and Champ Baily at the corners with Harrison and Ed Reed at the saftey spots – but if the defensive line doesn’t put pressure on the QB, it won’t matter.
I also thing that Plummer throws too many picks to be the #1 guy on a team as good as Denver. The organization is outstanding. They need a quarterback and a defensive scheme that allows their rushers to get to the quarterback this year.
I forgot to most of the world they are known as John and the Elways but here in Denver we refer to them as the Broncos or donkeys depending on the week.
With Jerry Rice to throw to Jake Plummers inner pro-bowler should come out(imagine sarcastic tone here)
karl – that’s the #1 problem! With Plummer behind center, there’s an unavoidable ceiling the Broncos are destined to smash their head on. Are Wilson and Gold still on the team? The right scheme on defense, one that I’m sure Shanahan will come closer to this year, will allow the tallent in the secondary to show. The sticking points will be whether they can put enough pressure on opposing QBs, and how many picks Plummer throws versus complicated schemes.
It baffles me how consistent the running game is from year to year. If Plummer throws too many picks early in the year, I’m sure you and the rest of the fans out in Denver will get on his case big time. Who is your #2 coming into this season? I haven’t begun my pre-season info dump just yet, so I’m rusty on how all the rosters are shaping up.
What did you think of Denver’s draft? Excited?
For plummers back-up the talk of the town rght now is Bradlee Van pelt, that cannot be good.
The problem with the Broncos is that the running game keeps them from being really bad so they don’t get any high draft picks but thanks to plummer and co they cannot get really good.
My E-mail is [email protected]
Van Pelt huh? Do you know the backstory of why he was waived last year? Was it an injury or attitude problem?
He was on the practice squad, I think, in order to put someone on the practice squad you have to waive them first. He is a good athlete but he is starting to look like Jarius Jackson, a good athlete but not an NFL quarterback.
Maybe the Patriots would like to trade Tom Brady for him, because we all know a sixth round draft pick like that is not going to be any good. Brady was Greise’s back-up in college wasn’t he? I have always wondered if the Brady pick was blind luck or if Bellicek(sic) is that much smarter than everyone else.
Football fans fall into two categories mystics who belive their teams are going to win no matter what, realists who know that their team might have some problems. I wanna believe, but the Broncos just picked up Plummers option.
HA! I don’t think they could have imagined Brady doing as well as he has, but they definitely knew something…I call it a keen eye for hype. Henson was the recepient of the hype, and Brady was pushed aside. Bellichek and Pioli have a knack for picking up this type of player and getting more than they paid for. Rodney Harrison, Mike Vrabel, Corey Dillon are all guys who fit this profile.
I’m absolutely a mystic when it comes to the Pats and the Celts! I go into every game expecting them to win. With the Red Sox, the years of disappointment managed to beat that out of me. With the Sox I’m definitely a realist.
The thing about Denver is strange for me because they’d always beat the Pats…year after year we always found a way to lose whether it was in Foxboro or Mile High. The last win in Denver, with the intentional safety, was the game that broke the string of disappointments. I remember it was a Monday Night game, and Brady to Givens in the corner of the endzone iced it.
The running game is a given year in year out, which has allowed Shanahan to deal off some backs and keep himself from having to pay one the max…that’s what kills Indy every year in my opinion…so the hardest thing for most teams to accomplish every year (run the ball consistently) is covered. This puts the Broncoes in a position where they’re always going to be competitive. I dig your frustration over not having a premium draft pick, but these past few years, any first rounder can turn into a pro-bowler. I saw that you guys drafted a corner in the first round…any word on how he’s looked so far?
I have a theory when it comes to quarterbacks…it’s too involved to comment on here, but the primary factor is decisionmaking, especially under pressure late in the game. Plummer just has a knack for making that late game bad decision. It’s a trait with those QBs who have those blessed arms…Bledsoe comes to mind…where they lean on their physical ability too much and make that one or two throws that their body convinces them they can complete, but never should have left their hand.
The beginning and end of Brett Favre’s career is a perfect case study of this concept. He was able to capitalize on some good situations in the middle of his career – and perhaps Jake can do the same. I wouldn’t be suprised if he was able to put together a couple of pro bowl years, but that all depends on how well he’s able to ween himself from the habit of letting it go to his 1-2 looks when the safer play is underneath. Something he could drive defenses crazy with would be an effective pump fake deep to open up the 15 yard route underneath the corners and safeties. Everyone knows that Jake can air it out, and his scouting report definitely has him taking those shots. Say he gets defenses thinking about the fake, and he can get safeties frozen – not knowing if he’s going deep or not…that would open up his game big time.
Brady is able to accomplish this by staring down his first two reads and keeping the guy he’s really going to in the corner of his eye – turning and delivering the ball before anyone on the defense has time to react. Middle linebackers are so good now at focusing on a quarterback’s eyes and reacting once that arm goes back…Bruschi comes to mind. For a QB to be successful now, he really has to be able to sell that he’s going one place and changing up at the last second without losing anything in his mechanics.
I love Colorado – been there twice…once for Phil and Friends at the Fillmore and up in Vail, then last summer for The Dead at Red Rocks. Whenever it’s Denver versus anyone but my team, I’m rooting for them. Now that Elway is retired, it’s a LOT easier!
Right – the first two sentences are complete generalities, and they mirror what was being said a year ago. I don’t think there’s any actual proof to support Cheney’s accertion that the insurgency is in it’s ‘last throes’.
I don’t think that this is the standard anyone is arguing needs to be met. I do feel that this comparison is inaccurate though. Comparing crime here in America with suicide bombers in Iraq is way off base.
Plummer is great when he rolls out, but if he has to stay in the pocket bad things happen. Most NFL defences are very good at making the apposing offense do whatever it is that they are not good out. Teams playing Denver just have to keep Plummer in the pocket.
I grew up about two miles from Red Rocks, I have never been back east, the scenes they show on Boston legal make Boston look nice.
Boston is awesome. Tiny compared to Denver – no sprawl to it at all. They’ve been working for years on this project called ‘The Big Dig’, where the highway running through the city was rebuilt completely underground. Tons of cost overruns, and every leak they find ends up on the frong page of the Boston Herald, but it’s pretty cool. Doesn’t matter either way because the traffic is miles of crawl in and out during rush hour regardless. Same for every city I’ve been in…I wonder what we’re going to do about that.
Nothing in the world is more relaxing than driving through the mountains, like the drive from Denver to Vail. That’s awesome you live so close to Red Rocks – what type of music are you into? I’ve got it on my list to take the kids out there before they’re out of high school. Hands down the best venue in the country.
I think against Plummer the key is the ends getting up field to keep him from rolling, you’re definitely right about that. You mentioned something that I think is vital for a QB, being able to keep his head in the pocket, sense pressure, and most important – not scraping the mechanics to get off a throw. Guys like Madden make so much out of guys like Favre making a throw off of the wrong foot, but it’s going to hurt the team in the long run. Brady has that uncanny ability to feel the pressure and take one step away from it without his body getting out of that form he wants to be in to make a good throw.
Do you feel like the o-line gives him enough time? How is Reuben picking up the blitz? You guys never have a fullback it seems, kind of like Indy. I’d imagine that if the back sucks at picking up the blitz, it can be a long season for Plummer.
I never thought about the problem at full back. In the superbowl years they had Howard Griffin, and since then, they have not had a really good fullback.
The one thing I notice about the Broncos now as apposed to then is the defense. In the superbowl years if they needed a stop they could get it, obviously a better offense helps the defense but they are not as good as they were at getting the big stop.
I don’t live that clse to Red Rocks any more I moved downtown about a year ago, talk about an urban suburban divid my parents and friends who still live in the burbs are amazed that I don’t get mugged daily.
Celtics fan? I still cannot believe that the nuggets picked Raef Lafreantz ahead of Paul Pierce.
Looks like the Iraq debate is heating up
SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
Published: June 16, 2005
WASHINGTON, June 16 – A resolution calling on President Bush to announce an exit strategy from Iraq was introduced in the House today by a bipartisan group of lawmakers, including one who was once so upset about French opposition to the war that he wanted the House cafeterias to change the name “French fries” to “freedom fries.”
Two Republicans and two Democrats held a news conference in which they prodded President Bush to announce a withdrawal timetable by the end of the year. Their resolution calls on him to start bringing American troops home by Oct. 1, 2006.
“Our troops have done everything we’ve asked of them,” said one sponsor, Representative Neil Abercrombie, Democrat of Hawaii. “It’s time to get serious about an exit strategy.”
Representative Walter B. Jones, a North Carolina Republican, who not many months ago was so incensed by French opposition to the American-led military campaign in Iraq, agreed. “After 1,700 deaths, over 12,000 wounded and $200 billion spent, we believe it is time to have this debate and discussion,” he said.
The other sponsors are Representatives Ron Paul, Republican of Texas, and Dennis Kucinich, Democrat of Ohio.
Yea – it’s has to be talked about before this session of Congress ends. Whether or not the Downing Street Memos manage to bring this administration down, they are absolutely convincing Republicans to get real about the war. Elections are coming up, and simply laundering the lies won’t get the job done as far as that goes.
War has managed to fly under the radar for a long time now, and Cheney’s last statement was ridiculous. He could care less. I think that’s obvious to a lot of people now. None of this is or has been on the up and up.
I can’t believe that Ainge voluntarily took Lafrenz’s contract from Dallas. He wanted to get rid of Antoine and took whatever he could get…Jiri Welsh is second string on another team now, shooting about 35% – and Lafrenz is a stiff. Four more years at over 40 million!
I think you guys are one or two pieces away…but really, some more time and a healthy Camby could do the trick. Also, a shooting guard who can put up 15 a game…I remember you guys had Voshon Lenard, what’d you think of him? I love Kenyon, the guy’s a winner. As long as Karl can keep the attitudes under control and Camby/Nene can score and stay healthy, they should be even better next year.
Going into Denver and running for 48 minutes is a tough thing to do some nights. They’re just not there yet defensively. What do you think of Miller? I haven’t seen him play that much…even when I could afford the league pass, I didn’t watch many Clipper’s games.
I had a long conversation with a cab driver after a lot of drinking at Coors Field – the Sox were in town…and he wasn’t optomistic at all. I converted him by the time we got to my hotel. Like I said, if it’s not my team on the field/floor, I’m rooting for Denver.
It must irk you some days in the concrete jungle knowing God’s heavy footprints are mere miles away. Beautiful life this is…Colorado can remind you of that on a bad day.
About Iraq:
Seems like even republicans are realizing that they better be able to say more than “all is well” come election time.
About Denver:
I miss being close to all the MTN bike trails in the BURBs, but now I am walking distance to about thirty bars, and I can walk to work, plus I am pretty close to a big skateboard park, so all in all I would give the nod to the concrete jungle. A buddy of mine lives in Vail, he used to weigh close to 300 pounds and got winded walking up stairs. He started snowboarding and bike riding, and now the guy can ride a bike up Vail mountain without trouble. Of course he also used to be pre-med with a 4.00 GPA, and now he works as a lift-op. I guess life is all about choices.
That’s what it’s all about. Will the forces of American political nature be enough to save these soldiers is the question. I’m sad when I think that the administration could just try to weather the storm. The election brought a series of shocks for me, and with that in mind…I’m playing this like I do the Red Sox. Anything can happen, and I shouldn’t be suprised by what goes down.
You’re right about that. I think everyone hits their first path in life figuring they have it made, then things change. Making yourself happy following the first tumble is the hardest thing to do. It’s good to hear a story like the one about your friend.
Sounds like you’re having a great time. Enjoy it! Are you familiar with a bar on Colfax next to the Fillmore? Grateful Dead bar…worth checking out. What part of town do you live in?
The tragedy of Iraq is that people are dying and nothing is being accomplished; and no one seems to care. But if an attractive girl is missing in Arruba then we need 24/7 news coverage.
Of course, I still believe that liberals need to learn how to talk about national enquirer type stories the problem is that it is hard to take runaway brides serious when you realize that their are bigger problems.
Grateful dead bar? I have never been there, I live close to colfax and York which is probably 15 blocks from there, I share a zip code with 5 or 6 tattoo parlors.
Sometimes that first tumble can be a good thing as it forces you to do what you like rather than what you think you should do.
The army can use a few good Niedermyers:
The objective of OPERATION YELLOW ELEPHANT is to recruit College Republicans and Young Republicans to serve as infantry. They demanded this war and now viciously support it. It’s only right that they also experience it.
The 56th College Republican National Convention is the setting for many of the proposed ops. It begins on Friday, June 24.
The General encourages his readers to take the initiative to create materials and to plan and conduct special operations. Please let him know what you’ve done and he’ll try to post it.
Regular readers know that the General is a proud heterosexual, Christian conservative. He is not trying to embarrass the College Republicans. Rather, he believes that by encouraging them to enlist, he is pushing them to be more vocal about the good work their doing to make our homeland safe–things like holding affirmative action bakesales, holding immigrant hunts, almost single-handedly funding Ann Coulter, David Horowitz, and Michelle Malkin, relieving the elderly of the burden of having money, and punching out Joan Jett
Their country is calling war supporters. Fight for freedom! Encourage your children and grandchildren to fight for freedom! Encourage your listerners, your flocks, your readers, your viewers to fight for freedom!
They demanded this war and now viciously support it.
People also demanded we fight Japan and Germany in WW2. What’s the point?
The tragedy of Iraq is that people are dying and nothing is being accomplished; and no one seems to care.
Maybe your interpretation needs some work. I think the reason you percieve people don’t care is that a lot is being accomplished. The troops who are coming home are telling the truth that the media has hid, elections and the rule of law is being applied ever more and the Iraqi people are free to do what they will.
For the time being maybe we can just agree to disagree about how well the war is going.
As for operation yellow elaphant the point is that maybe service age repubs should put thier ass where their mouth is, oh wait they already have done that, but you get the point. If these people are so sure that the war is worth it and that we are winning it why are they not joining in droves, why are their children not joining.
I have to take off for awhile, pesky job stuff, but I look forward to your reply
The public was not behind us getting involved in WW2. It took pearl harbor for FDR to get us into that.
That’s funny, because I was just listening to the Ed Schultz show and two veterans called up saying the exact opposite. There are websites where veterans of the Iraq war are speaking out against the war.
There’s a thin line between politics and reality, and a willingness to vote in favor of a war and actually believing in it enough to go fight it are two actions with miles upon miles in between.
If these people are so sure that the war is worth it and that we are winning it why are they not joining in droves, why are their children not joining.
Probably the same reason that I call 911 if I a house on fire but I’m no firefighter and have no training in fighting fires. We can’t all be firemen. Are you saying that only the people who go oversees to fight are the only ones who have a say in American politics?
Saddam got his own ass kicked for being a dumbass, I wold have loved for him to step down and let the U.N. do it’s job but he chose a different path. This operation yellow elephant just goes to show the left STILL doesn’t understand anything about foreign policy or war.
There’s a thin line between politics and reality, and a willingness to vote in favor of a war and actually believing in it enough to go fight it are two actions with miles upon miles in between.
My pregnant neighbor is for the war, should we parachute her into Bagdad? What about seniors? Should people with bad vision, bad knees or diabetics and heart patients be pressed into service because they see taking out Saddam was the right thing to do?
This whole “if you love it then why don’t you marry it” argument is irrelevant. I for the war but asthma kept me out, believe me I tried.
RT: My pregnant neighbor is for the war, should we parachute her into Bagdad? What about seniors? Should people with bad vision, bad knees or diabetics and heart patients be pressed into service because they see taking out Saddam was the right thing to do?
This whole “if you love it then why don’t you marry it” argument is irrelevant. I for the war but asthma kept me out, believe me I tried.
Right – there are millions of able-bodied Republican voters out there who could choose to serve. I’m sure the politicians have children that are of age…the Bush twins come to mind.
Right – there are millions of able-bodied Republican voters out there who could choose to serve. I’m sure the politicians have children that are of age…the Bush twins come to mind.
But why single out the Bush twins or Republican voters? Basically your saying that if your for something you are obligated to dive in first hand, as with the military. I could just as easily say since Democrats love Social Security so much they should pay my 12% since I think SS is a fraud.
America elected George Bush, twice, to do the job the rest of the world was either too lazy or too corrupt to do. So what if there are a million able bodied Republicans who could serve, because they have other callings in life means nothing.
If Democrats want out of Iraq so bad why don’t a million liberals join up and get the job done 10 times as fast? We’ll be out of there in no time.
I’m for the war but I don’t have what it takes to get into the military, I’m for safe streets but I don’t go try to make citizens arrests, I’m for better quality education but I’m not asked to go teach children since it was me that demanded better schools.
What point does sending the Bush twins over make? Saddam needed to be removed no matter who goes over there. If the Bush twins died in battle Saddam still needed to be removed. No matter who goes over there to fight, Saddam still needed to be removed and it was Saddam that created this current situation. If you think that sending conservative to war will “show them” you are mistaken.
In a movie I watched a long time ago…actually, it has relevance in the Shaivo thing come to think of it…Johnny Got His Gun – – – I remember a line from that movie, the father talking to his kid, who asks him ‘when it’s my time to go, do you want me to fight?’ The father replies by saying something about if the war is right, any man would give his only begotten son…
I can’t remember it word for word, but the concept always stuck with me. To me, real conviction in one’s beliefs should go a long way, and when you compare the life we’re experiencing now with that of human beings in every generation that came before us, who didn’t have all that we’ve been blessed with – the concept of going to war was entirely different.
We’ve grown to accept the fact that for the most part the lower income children will be the ones to enlist, but even now that’s not guaranteed. And what does it say about a nation of people who can launch a war against another country, but not have enough soldiers to fill the uniforms?
When I enlisted I had a lot of ideas of what I was ‘meant’ to do, and most of that ended up seeming foolish as time went by – – – regardless, I had some feeling inside that what I was doing was right. There aren’t an abundance of kids with that same feeling inside, and for me it translates to mean our heart isn’t in it.
If you are asking people to kill and possibly be killed for a cause they don’t believe in, you are going to have fraggings, desertions, mental illness suicides, all the things that are taking place right now. At least if the campus conservatives showed up they could say they believed in the cause. The whole point of a volunteer army is to have troops that are committed to the mission, so maybe the people who believe in the mission should volunteer.
I think Chris’s point about politics and realty is a good one, the fact that no one or at least very few people are signing up shows what people really think of the war.
As for sending your pregnant niehbor, why not wait until she goes post partum, now that would scare an enemy.
But a volunteer army isn’t about only those who agree with the mission, once you enlist your beliefs are irrelevant because the soldier took an oath to serve. The oath doesn’t say that you can serve as long as you agree with American politics.
Right Thinker says:
But a volunteer army isn’t about only those who agree with the mission, once you enlist your beliefs are irrelevant because the soldier took an oath to serve. The oath doesn’t say that you can serve as long as you agree with American politics.
So what? I’m not talking about once you’re in, but the mindset of those who voted for Bush. The mindset before one joins is what I’m talking about. How many million votes did Bush get in the election?
There are drill sergeants in Lenardwood, Jackson, Benning and Sill right now without platoons to train. That’s the reality.
The mindset before one joins is what I’m talking about. How many million votes did Bush get in the election?
Ok, but I still don’t get what your point is. There are millions of votes Bush didn’t get, are you saying that only Bush supporters should enlist in the military? I voted against a gay marriage ban, by this logic I should go out and marry a man.
Also, support for Bush doesn’t equate to support for the war, there are a lot of reasons electing Bush was a great thing that happened. If democrats wanted Bush out so bad then why did they run a sure loser like Kerry? Hell, I like Lieberman and McCain would have been good too (on the Republican side).
Year after year it’s the same losers, Gephardt, Sharpton, Nader and afew nuts like Dean and Kerry. Bush is doing the shit job no one else was able or ethical enough to do.
There are drill sergeants in Lenardwood, Jackson, Benning and Sill right now without platoons to train. That’s the reality.
Great, my taxes won’t be as high. We don’t need more troops over there or over here. The war has been won, Iraq is sovereign again and the insurgency is dying out.
Understand that muslims will always have a bloodlust that being nice to them won’t cure. If we were to totally bend over, ala Clinton, we would still have some murderer attack us because Allah commands it. Look at Palestine. As long as a Jew continues to draw breath palestinians will try to stop that breath.
You say alot about what is bad but what would you change? Draft republicans, have a 3 million man army and spend the entire budget on military surplus? We have enough people, we have enough stuff and we are winning in Iraq. And now the same number of Americans hate France that the Frech do that hate America. That’s a victory in my book.
We don’t need more troops? Then why is the milatary recruiting at all, why are they setting goals that they cannot achieve? and why are recruiters so desperate for warm bodies that they are telling people to fake drug tests and high school diplomas. Recentely in an attempt to get more people to join they raised the max age to 40 for reservist.
Seems like they might have room for some of those young repubs. To me the point of this is if you are going to encourage people to fight you should be willing to do it yourself. If you don’t beleive that a war is worth your time or life, maybe it is not worth someone elses life either.
I see the young republictims are scheduling a convention at mandelay bay, maybe you could go give them recruitment material. Maybe in between pedicures and boyesque shows they could serve their country.
That’s a social issue. We’re talking about a war here. It’s the same idea as the annyonimity of the internet – where someone who wouldn’t have the balls to say anything to someone’s face in real life turns into a troll and insults your mama, calls you a child molester or something because you disagreed with him about whether or not Rafael Palmerio is a first ballot hall of famer.
Anyone can say – ‘yes, we should drop bombs on country X and then send troops in to take over’ – because we live in a free society that does not require military service for citizenship, you can have that opinion, cast your vote for the candidate who will follow through, and never be required to actually go over and fight.
The difference between voting for a tax hike-gay marriage or in support of a war is your vote has something to do with whether or not someone from your hometown stays in Iraq or comes home. I know that people vote for all different reasons, but the war is significant enough of a thing – with the death and dismemberment and all – and it provokes mucho patriotism and flag waving…
How legit is all of it? How true of a conviction is it really? My perception with people I’ve come across in my life is that it’s very common for someone to identify with the military’s mission, the USA being a ‘kick-ass and take names’ kind of force in the world – but that’s where it ends. With an idea. Most will not go any further than that – and like the troll who accuses you of banging your own mother because you disagree about whether or not the UN building in New York should be blown up – often times that person who’s full of ideas and words, if face to face with the actual situation in real life, wouldn’t have the guts to backup their actions with words.
And that’s what it’s about in America now. We’re all becoming pussified and LOUD! You can beat the drum louder than anyone and never have to actually DO anything to back it up.
I’m going with the law of averages on this one and betting on the war having been the policy many people voted on.
I’m sick of them too…not so much Gephardt, but definitely Sharpton and Nader. I’m definitely sick of Gephardt debating, but don’t involuntarily clench my fist when I see his image on TV like I tend to do with the other two. Kerry’s not a nut. I know you’re still high on the fumes from the campaign, but this guy has done a lot for our country. He was one of those people I talked about, who put his money where his mouth was and went over to fight.
Right, take it from me, a unit that’s down a single soldier is hurting. I used to run the process of giving incoming soldiers orders to where they were going to go in the brigade once they came in…I’d make recommendations to the sergeant major and he’d make the call. Booze, gear…you name it, I had it offered to me to make a new guy head in a certain direction. It was rare, but deals get done, soldiers are traded like baseball cards sometimes. That’s not the thing really…
What you have to keep in mind is, it takes a lot of different types of soldiers to make a combat unit operationally effective…off the top of my head you’ve got administrative, intelligence, supply, 2-3 different types of mechanics depending on the equipment (armor unit/infantry/cavalry/etc.), signal/tech, medics, grunts, scouts, mortars, cooks…there are more, but you get the idea. Now each of these groups is seperated into units that have a workload that’s the same whether or not you’re fully staffed or down 2 people.
When a batallion is down 3 mechanics, it’s not only hard on the ones who are there, as instead of 14 hour days, they could be working 18 hour days – but – the work they have to do is not coming out the other end as fast as it should be, meaning there’s a bradley in Iraq whose Singars radio is on the fritz and instead of it getting fixed in 2 hours, it takes 8 hours instead, and perhaps they’re ambushed and need to make a communication for backup…
Let’s say the unit is tasked to perform a sweep in a section of a town and the mission requires 10 vehicles…4 are still in maintenance, you still have to get out there and complete the mission.
A maintenance unit could have 70+ in it, and if it’s down 5-10, like some of my units could be at times (during peace), that means the training isn’t happening the way it should, because the junior soldiers with less experience are performing tasks they’re not really prepared to take on…meaning it takes longer and more things get messed up.
We all think about it in terms of ‘troops’, but few actually realize the significance of recruiting shortfalls and what it means to every single unit we have.
One is in theatre and most likely getting a heavier percentage of new guys than the units in the rear…but that unit in the rear is going to rotate there eventually. And you don’t really want soldiers going from Basic-AIT straight into battle…it’s not fair to them or the unit that’s getting them. I’ve gone on enough about it, but a glib remark about this extremely serious issue is the kind of thing that can get an article written…
and you don’t want that right (I am looking at the new one of yours…I had trouble focusing today w/ everything going on…sorry about the delay)
That’s a mischaracterization of Clinton’s time in office. Hopefully we’re still exchanging ideas here when the next Democrat is elected to the White House, and the stark difference between the heat Bush is feeling and what I saw Clinton deal with will be clear as day.
Right, more money goes into defense now than anything else…and it’s not troops as much as it is the cost of missiles, tanks, planes and research, you know, on how to build a death star.
Nobody gives a shit about France…even the Europeans don’t give a shit about France. American conservatives mention the word ‘France’ more than anyone in the world.
From tpmcafe:
The indefatigable Doug Jehl has this to report:
“A new classified assessment by the Central Intelligence Agency says Iraq may prove to be an even more effective training ground for Islamic extremists than Afghanistan was in Al Qaeda’s early days, because it is serving as a real-world laboratory for militants to improve their skills in urban combat.”
So let me get this straight. We went to war against Iraq, Bush told us over the weekend, because of 9/11. And since we’ve been there, Iraq has become the “central front” in the war on terror. (“All of us can agree that the world’s terrorists have now made Iraq a central front in the war on terror,” Bush said Saturday.) And now the terrorists aren’t only killing American soldiers and Iraqis in Iraq — they’re getting what Richard Clarke calls “life-fire training,” which they will use to strike again at a time and a place of their choosing.
No wonder that a majority of the American people have concluded that the Iraq War has made us less — not more — secure.
We don’t need more troops? Then why is the milatary recruiting at all, why are they setting goals that they cannot achieve?
I should have specified that I don’t think they need to recruit above and beyond what they are doing now. Recuitment is down, I know that, and recruiters jobs are beased on getting the numbers.
Laziness and trying to cut corners is why a single recruiter tried to buck the system and if there are others then the same goes for them. Sales isn’t about price or deceptive practices, it takes talent and these guys just don’t have what it takes to sell.
To me the point of this is if you are going to encourage people to fight you should be willing to do it yourself.
I think that if your country needs you, no matter who you voted for, you should be willing to help. I looked into it myself about 8 months ago and found out I coundn’t join the Salvation Army let alone the American Army.
Again the problem with this logic is that I could say that I don’t agree with Social Security and if Democrats love it so much let them pay for it with their payroll taxes. I voted for Bush to help get rid of SS so let democrats pay for it.
That’s a social issue. We’re talking about a war here.
War isn’t a social issue? I will disagree 100% with this statement. Terrorism and global stability is all about social issues and our society is under attack, has been for a while.
The difference between voting for a tax hike-gay marriage or in support of a war is your vote has something to do with whether or not someone from your hometown stays in Iraq or comes home.
The vote was for homeland security and keeping the war in someone else’s country but that’s beside the point. This argument that if you vote for Bush you have to go fight or your a hipocrit is wrong. How would we get 150 million people trained and to Iraq and why? We don’t need this many people, someone has to stay behind and it wouldn’t help anything anyway.
UN building in New York should be blown up
Did I say the U.N. building should be blown up? Hey Karl, now that’s a troll, I can’t come up with that kind of stuff. See, I’m no troll.
He was one of those people I talked about, who put his money where his mouth was and went over to fight.
Yeah, the accidental hero.
Hopefully we’re still exchanging ideas here when the next Democrat is elected to the White House, and the stark difference between the heat Bush is feeling and what I saw Clinton deal with will be clear as day.
It’s a deal.
No wonder that a majority of the American people have concluded that the Iraq War has made us less — not more — secure.
Really? Eliminating an enemy on their turf rather than ours makes us less secure? If we had no units anywhere in the world the only place to hit us would be on our own soil. And yes, tehy would still come after us.
It is wrong to think that if we weren’t there then everything in the world would be rosy. One way to think of this is the bug zapper, that thing shaped like a lantern with the blue light that attracts bugs and then zaps them. I would much rather fight an enemy anywhere other than my front yard.