Task Force 6-26, a unit whose name and location changes based on how much heat they’ve got on them at a given time, whether it’s the Pentagon, CIA, FBI or the slabs of meat known to most of the world as ‘Iraqis’, is a group of sadists apparently armed with paintball guns, car batteries and jumper cables. The people they torture often have nothing to do with anything, but then again, the life of a sadist can get boring from time to time. As a token of appreciation though, each of them are presented a hood by the company commander, one that might have been used to cover the head of one of their victims (no lie!). Their mission is to capture Zarqawi, and by all accounts it’s going very well. In fact, a taxi driver and his family were just apprehended for ‘looking Arab in Iraq’, and as the story goes, the guy is a psychic who can predict where Zarqawi is going to be at any time, but the catch is…to make it work he has to smoke an entire ounce of BC kind and have a Zionist pelt his naked body with paintballs.
Turns out that guy was just jerking them around, but they’ve got a lot of good leads anyway. Like the guy who lives next door to the taxi driver, a fan of Allah (also someone who repeatedly stole his copy of the Baghdad Times each morning) who apparently is a distant cousin of Zarqawi on his mother’s side. They striped this guy naked, dumped a bucket of ice water on him, turned on the air conditioner and blasted Marilyn Manson as loud as it would go…just to see what would happen.
Yes, we’re really on top of things over in Iraq, and the closet S&M homosexuals of America have an incredible opportunity now to let loose and do their thing, while also being able to come home and march in a parade that doesn’t feature Cher impersonators. Used to be they’d have to congregate in bath houses or highway rest areas, but fortunately Army Special Forces appears to have their arms opened wide. And as the recruiter said to one prospect he met at a showing of Brokeback Mountain in Oklahoma recently, “whips, chains, stun guns…whatever gets you off, the Army will provide that AND 40 thousand dollars for college.”
Seriously though, this is indicative of something deeply wrong here in America. Because not only did this take place after Abu Gharib and most likely continues today, but this unit is ‘rouge’ in ever sense of the word. Civilians working for the FBI and CIA will report what they see up, orders will come down, verbal and written warnings will be delivered, and the beat goes on. When they finally ‘wear out’ one of their victims, they’re dropped in the middle of the desert with $100 American and from there who knows? Much like ‘renditioned’ innocents we’ve been hearing about, it seems that once the US military realizes that the taxi driver can’t lead them to Zarqawi, they simply ditch them like David Lee Roth would a groupie once the tour ended. “Here’s a few bucks, clean yourself up, just be thankful that your genitals haven’t fallen off (yet), just be thankful you’re still alive.”
This has got to stop, this entire deranged clump of whatever we’ve gotten ourselves into over there. If not for the sake of those soldiers and civilians who are still alive, then for the sake of everyone back here in the states. People like me who’re sick of depravity suddenly becoming my nation’s calling card. Because to a few million people who already considered western culture depraved and sick, we’ve done absolutely nothing to prove otherwise. Let alone the kinky monstrosity that was the Abu Gharib scandal, third generation inbreeds pointing at pee-pees and laughing, now it’s our best and brightest getting in on the act.
“Special” Forces…
At this point people should be realizing that torture is not effective, so why do it?
That’s the same mentality at work as…let’s say, intelligent design, abstinance instead of safe sex education…basically taking what is scientifically known at a certain point and installing a policy of ‘nuh-UH’.
The fact that it’s become so obvious is what’s keeping me from posting 90% of what I read on the topic of Iraq in a given week. Because the folks who aren’t going to be swayed are true believers and why badger someone who’s busy waving a flag? They’re happy, just leave them be.
It’s all about straw men, and the classic ‘if waterboarding an a-rab will save American lives, then I’m OK w/ it.’
Personally, I see nothing of value in ruining someone’s life if they’ve done nothing wrong. The ‘greater good’ is a concept that human beings apply subjectively and usually based on who is getting screwed and who is doing the screwing.
On the topic of torture though, it’s the people who vote Republican, yet there is John McCain, living proof that it doesn’t work. Here’s a guy who’s been through it all and still managed to become a US Senator.
Sad fact is though, the people we torture than drop off in the middle of nowhere…they’re going to sign up with whoever’s planing the sequel to 9/11.
And I don’t blame them one bit. If I were that Iraqi, I’d be looking for payback also.
I just hope they leave the blue states alone this time and go after the headquarters of Arby’s or something. Don’t confuse me with the ‘Deliverance’ jerkoff who wants to kill liberal judges because of Terri Shiavo…
And for the record, FUCK MOHAMMAD (got to keep my rep up so the righties won’t call me a coward)
Chris:
If you really want to get some street cred with the righties you should post the cartoons.
Sometimes it seems that the worst form of torture for McCain is sitting next to Bush at a campaign function.
5 years ago I doubt anyone would believe the US would be involved in torture, now everyone knows it. It is sad what fear can do.
Speaking of fear I should probably stop bashing christians the last thing I need is for James Dobson to issue a fatwa against me.
You guys live in a dream world. You seriously don’t believe that torture has been with us in every conflict? That is has been used consistently over the past 250 years…in fact longer. Is it appalling??? YES! Was it just invented? NO!
Put down the Frito’s, put the remote control in it’s slot, and pick up a book. Not a magazine…A book. Better yet go take a course in History at a CC.
Who needs learnin’ when you got beer and tang?
Washington, to quell your assumptions, I’m most of the way through ‘Team of Rivals’ right now, and even with twin boys under a year of age, I’m able to devour a good amount of books on all kinds of topics. One of my next ones will be ‘Eating Soup With a Knife’ (pretty sure that’s the title), a decision made after reading an article on the front page of the Wall Street Journal this morning about an Army Colonel who wrote the book, it’s subject, how the Army never learned it’s lesson after Vietnam, it’s about fighting a gurilla war.
General Casey ordered four of his subordinates to read it while in theatre, and he also gave a copy to Donald Rumsfeld. The title is a riff on Laurence of Arabia.
Now…do I detail what I’ve read on deadissue.com? No. Why? I don’t know, it doesn’t come up when I sit down at the PC. Now Paul on the other hand, an avid reader in his own right, kindly makes suggestions on Shaddow of Diogenes, a couple of which I’ve got loaded into the magazine, waiting their turn.
My point in informing you of this…well, just because I’m a 27 year old military guy who hasn’t yet been to college, it’s not right to assume that I spend my leisure time flipping through the pages of Maxim, glued to the television, wondering what the gang on Survivor is up to. I’m not interested in either of those things, but to be honest, if someone were into one or both, it wouldn’t automatically put me in a position to talk down to them.
I sincerely enjoy reading your work on Rolling Barrage, and your point of view is valued here. That said, when engaged in a debate with you either here or at your spot, I always walk away feeling like you’re constantly judging me and whoever else happens to disagree with you. Just being honest.
On your site I admit outright that I’m not well versed in military history…now, that doesn’t mean I won’t be when I’m 40. The important thing now, as I see it, is that I don’t look at that fact as confirmation that I need to just clam up and flip on the tube.
Military strategy is what you establish prior to the mission, and tactics are how you carry it out. I learned that on Rolling Barrage. That’s what this is all about for me. Not proving to anyone that I’m worthy of praise or whatever…it’s about learning.
I’d imagine that every single contributor to both of our sites has a nugget of knowledge exclusive to them. I’ll never extract them if I don’t engage people, if I simply share my own thoughts without taking the time to absorb those of others.
blah blah blah…my main point…talking down to good people is obnoxious and counter productive. I’m most likely guilty of it as well, but it’s never my intention.
Washington won’t even let me post at Rolling Barrage anymore. I guess all that nose picking finally allowed my brain to ooze through my sinuses and out my nostril. Where de remote?
I agree with Washington on this one. If you think we’re innocent of using torture when needed, you’re fooling yourself.
Torture can be a wonderful tool. Even if you don’t extract any information, you will inevitably put the fear of whatever into your enemy. The School of the Americas in Georgia has been training our allied special forces in “counter-insurgency” operations and techniques for a long time.
Do I like the idea, or practice of torture? No. But answer this question… would you torture the guy that you absolutely KNOW kidnapped your kid and won’t tell you where she is? I would in a heartbeat.
And another thing, if I knew I was going to be tortured if I engaged in aggression towards a government, I would definitely consider my choices much more carefully.
Finally, torture just goes to show that those really weird kids that killed and maimed animals when they were very young can still go on to have fulfilling and successful careers.
What? Why? Did you overdo it w/ the 4 letter words or something?
Obviously torture in certain situations will lead to a positive end, but how many stories do we need to hear about how we captured and tortured someone who was completely innocent of any wrongdoing? The scenario you laid out menace is one that doesn’t coorelate with the article I linked to here.
An Army interrogator (I’ve known a few in my day) doesn’t learn a single thing in their training about how to torture an enemy combatant. In fact, they’re taught that it’s useless.
Obviously special forces soldiers who’ve been through SEER (sp?) training are going to know more about it, but that dosen’t necessarily make it a good idea.
It’s a fact that special forces have been torturing Iraqis in an effort to capture Zarqawi, and after a couple years of that, they still haven’t caught him. Nonetheless, I’m sure they’ll keep on doing it.
The straw man that’s always set up when this topic comes up on the radio is that if a terrorist had knowledge that could prevent another 9/11 from happening…but does anyone here honestly think the stakes are even nearly that high in most of the instances where we torture people in this war? If so, then you’ve ignored a considerable amount of information that’s been available to all of us for a long time…stories of people who’ve been through it and subsequently let go or killed.
The simple fact is, the people collecting suspects and those doing the torturing are extremely bad at their jobs! Oh, I’m talking bad about the troops…but it’s true. And so, certain Americans are making innocent people probably wish a bomb had been droped on them instead.
Imagine foreign troops banging on your door, taking you into custody and this being done to you, for reasons that your tormentors aren’t even that sure of.
Bush talks a lot about ‘evil’…well, I don’t know whether such a thing even exists, but if it does, we’re no better than the people we’re pointing the finger at.
After Abu Gharib, this should have been stopped, but like I said in the piece, Iraqis are nothing but pieces of meat to these people. They’re more worthless than a nigger to the KKK.
Sorry, didn’t read the linked article. But I think I get the gist.
What I was getting at is that there are many reasons to torture someone, and successfully gathering information may not always be the reason for torture.
Yep, agreed. I’m no fan of torture, but I can see it’s practical purposes. And as for the Americans that pulled all this off at Abu Ghraib, I’d say they are more representative of the average soldier than anyone cares to admit to.
The scary thing to me about our military is that there may come a day when they are unleashed on American civilians. I’ve never been in the military, although my dad was. I always wondered what soldiers would do if ordered to shoot and kill American civilians. I suppose orders are order eh? Ours is not to question why…
The two primary things they teach you in basic training are:
Kill
Do what you’re told
No specific order to that list, but the word ‘kill’ is something you’ll say or hear about 50 times a day. That’s the job.
CM:
About finding uses for the wierd kids. One of the school shooters at Columbine was supposedely pushed over the edge after the marines didn’t accept him, just a factoid, no point to it.
Torture might make sense if you had genuine insurgents, but it sounds like in many cases they just pick up someone , because they look like someone. Also, seems that the interogations need to be handled by well trained people to be effective. Lindy England and co did not appear to be well trained. Seems like everything that is done in such a half-assed manner that even if it is a good idea, it still ends bad.
What’s behind this story I linked to is frustration. Our military was not trained to do what they’re doing now. They’ve been trained their entire careers to kill, and it’s starting to take it’s toll. Fact is, if a gang banger with unlimited cashflow and public support wanted to evade capture in a US city, they wouldn’t be able to find him either. Let alone an Arab in Iraq!
The Columbine fact is something I didn’t know. karl, did you see the movie Elephant? Worth a viewing…gus van sant
Look at Whitey Bulger! Perfect example.
I will volunteer to interrogate terrorists using the old and proven Southern method. I will not play pattie cake with them like a lot would have us to do either. These folks are out to hurt us (to paraphrase “Turkish” in the great movie “Snatch”)and this isn’t a kissing contest. Send them my way Chris. 🙂
There are too many comments for me to address individually.
Torture is horrific. Period.
Something that irritates me, when we gather here, is the assault on the military. If it’s warranted no problem but… “Will they shoot American citizens?” C’mon- this type of conversation was recorded at war rallies in the 60’s over Vietnam – “We are next”-The 82nd Airborne will take over Cal very soon – We will be snatched from our beds….
Too many episodes of the X-Files.
Chris:
When I state people should put down their remotes I’m not always addressing the people here. People spend 35 minutes a day reading and over 2.5 hours watching television. That sticks with me because it is exactly why we have uninformed people.
We owe it to ourselves and our children to learn facts-not emotional rhetoric-but facts.
The
Sonic:
Feel free to comment. I don’t think we are losing anymore comments or posts after the update yesterday.
I couldn’t agree more! I was lucky to grow up with a library within walking distance in Weymouth. I was there just about every day, picking books off the ‘adult’ shelves and challenging myself to understand what was going on in them. My grandmother was so supportive…I remember fondly, spending time with her, finding a word I didn’t know, looking it up, then finding her and asking what it meant. SHE KNEW THEM ALL! We’d watch Jeopardy together every night, and it blew me away how much she knew…she never went to college, unlike the contestants on the show who would sometimes fail to outdo her.
Indeed, learning was ‘cool’…even if it that was only true when I was around her.
A year or two before we moved away to New Hampshire, that library was closed, the town had put off fixing the roof for too many years, and the books inside remained, locked away.
Funny thing is…this is a story I had all but forgotten…until this morning as I read your comment with Sam in my left arm. I sat down with him and thought about it, and the memory suddenly came rushing back.
Boy are we lost in this country! I need to do something about it – but what?
Paul:
Getting people with no training who are willing to torture people is not a problem. Getting people who can actually get useful information, now that is another matter.
Chris:
A library is a wonderful place. It contains the treasures we should cherish most; history and knowledge.
Amen to that! Agawam (the town we moved to) has an outstanding library. I plan on spending a lot of time there with my kids, to get them into the habit. Wish it was within walking distance, but in America today, having one within driving distance that’s open past 5PM is a blessing!
Karl:I could get information and not leave a bruise on the little Islamofascists darlings believe me. Chris:I love libraries too so we have that in common. 🙂
Know what irritates me? The undeserved praise heaped upon our armed forces.
Our forces are well-equipped professional killers. I feel for them like I feel for the mob. It’s a dangerous business. Our forces are trained to kill as Chris noted. I can understand their usefulness as killers. This doesn’t mean I’m required to respect them for blindly following orders, and utilizing their firepower to full effect. Heck, my neighbor’s lab is a fine follower of orders, and he can lick his privates too.
I have much much more respect for home hospice workers than I do for any individual wearing an armed forces uniform (except for maybe the Coast Guard).
And please don’t remind me that they are dying to defend my freedom. Yes, I’ve heard that one.
Paul:
BTK started off with strange fantasys and moved on to the real thing, not sayin, just sayin. Take care.
Libraries are great
I only fantasize about giving Lefties their comeuppance Karl. I am an old lefty (who saw the light) and I know the breed. 🙂
Menace:
I respect your view. If that is how you view the military then that is how you view me, my friends, and some of my family members. As you equate the military with your neighbors dog-that means you equate me with a dog. I am confident that you will receive support for your statement here because people on this blog will soak it up. However, you are wrong. Not only are you wrong but your entire comment is beneath contempt.
During my service I met many people who worked tirelessly in the community helping people and they wore the uniform during the day. I met people who were bad apples but you find that in every occupation on earth, including hospice workers. Your comparisons will draw laughter here and that is fine. It’s Chris’ blog and if he supports that type of comment so be it. But that comment is ignorant and is as shortsighted as someone who claims everyone in the military is an angel.
Paul:
Why do you hate lefties so bad?
Washington:
Seems like CM was saying that you should not blindly worship someone just because they wear a uniform, you seem to implicitly agree with it when you say their are bad apples in the milatary. As for the dog comment, you might be a little more relaxed if you could lick your privates.
Take care
Karl I do not hate Leftists. I feel that they are deluded and rarely miss an opportunity to criticize America and rarely miss a chance to kowtow or appease our enemies and adversaries.
Yes, and during my everyday life as a regular Joe I meet people who work tirelessly in the community as well. They are often retired teachers, nurses, whathaveyou. They volunteer at senior centers, and work with disabled and special needs youth. Are they worshipped as our armed forces are worshipped? No.
No offense was intentionally directed at you or your family. All of my uncles on my father’s side were marines, and my father was a coastie. That doesn’t change my view of the military as killers first and foremost. I understand we are all just human, and I can admire a particularly brave act performed by a soldier. But blanket worship of an organization of trained killers is not something that I will not teach to my children.
My main problem with the military is that they are a tool for individuals that I have very little trust in or respect for.
And I will strive to teach them not to use double negatives.
Granted, I’m in a very very conservative state, but the democrats and liberal-minded people I know would never call or think of themselves as leftists. They are generally pro-education, pro-healthcare, and usually pro-choice. Violence and agression are usually viewed as extreme acts which should ONLY BE EMPLOYED AS A LAST RESORT. The liberal friends I have aren’t against war, they are mainly against war without fully exploring peaceful resolutions. America should be a place of ideas first and aggression last.
To quote Sun Tzu
I’d settle for just regular excellence in regards to Iraq.
A fun game for kids…
Figure out how many of Mr. Tzu’s points we’ve failed on.
THE ART OF WAR
On Sun Tzu, that level of thought and the likes of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush…
Honestly, I think they fear ideas like that. Just my opinion, but in a week where things are going bad for the administration, pick up a copy of the Wall Street Journal and open to the opinion section…notice how purposely confusing most of the writers make their explinations. I’ll save a few and post examples. Todays (already used for kindling, the fate of all newspaper that enters this house) almost made me bleed out of my eyeballs.
My point…that a guy like Cheney will use more words than he needs in order to ‘sound extremely intelligent’, when taken at face value, the policy he’s explaining is rather simple to understand.
Something like Sun Tzu is engrained in a field general’s head, but typically the civilians associated with modern wars only know how to talk.