I found this to be a great read. The writer traveled to see family in Italy, and cites the differences between how Jesus is used here in America as opposed to overseas. I’ve written on the topic numerous times, here’s a link to ‘Born Again Christianity’s Jihad on America’. The following is an excerpt from that essay:
Did Jesus live to inspire future marketability of his name for the benefit of false prophets seeking power, or did he live to inspire us to love one another. If everyone in the world were to convert tomorrow, what would the next step be? What’s the first thing Jesus would want us to do if the entire world woke up tomorrow and said a prayer in his name? The answer to this question isn’t represented in the political agenda of the religious-right. His first goal would not be for us to judge a specific group of people who live among us. We need to consider what that first thing would be, and make that priority number one. Until a step in this direction is taken, born again Christianity will continue along it’s current destructively militant path.
Now a portion of the editorial I read today:
They say Jesus is “pro life,” but he doesn’t seem to have a problem with the death penalty. And he thinks stem cell research – something that would save lives – is no different from murdering babies. They say he’s the embodiment of kindness, love, decency and compassion. But he hates gays, lesbians and Muslims. And he’s not too crazy about Buddhists, Hindus and the rest. Jews? He can put up with them if he has to.
The Rev. Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka claims to speak for Jesus and goes around the country talking about how ” AIDS cures fags.” Pat Robertson says it would be a good idea if the United States killed the president of Venezuela. It would be a lot cheaper than starting another war.
All week I went over that stuff in my head and decided not to mention any of it to the family.
It would make America look ridiculous.
I tend to shy away from people who take it upon themselves to speak for God. He can speak for Himself quite well thank you !
Chris,
You are right. Nothing more I can say to this. If it matters I am a Christian, by my beliefs, but you could not tell by the church I attend. Point being I do not attend any church recently.
Christians, the fundamental types you mention above, are snobs. There is no way to sugar coat those words and I do not want to because they deserve it. Christian snobbery is nothing new. Hard to believe these people have the gall to say the lords prayer. I believe they are condemming themselves every time they say it.
And I quote: “… and forgive us our debts as we forgive our debters.”
Debts could be, and sometimes is, substituted with Trespasses.
They are asking God to forgive them as they forgive others. You can see that alot of these people, if judged by their own words, are in for a surprise at the pearly gates. Like the terrorists expecting 72 virgins … they are in for a shock I think. Carefull I almost judged them!! I take it back!! Oh well … I hope God has a sense of humor.
I have met fundamentalist Christians who are the epitome of a good Christian should be and liberal Christians who are snobs or aloof. So I go by the person not the denomination or “group”. I say this as a Unitarian and not as a Christian. There is a great deal of anti-Christian prejudice in the world today – especially in America and the Left seems to incite a lot of it.
Paul, I’m on the left, and I’m not inciting anti-Christian prejudice. All I’ve done is write about my own esperiences. I think that fundamentalist religion in most forms is a 60/40 split on most social issues, but it’s followers have a 100/0 point of view.
There are many people I knew as a born again christian, who I would invite into my house in a second, be able to have fun and talk about all kinds of things.
Besides the mega-churches, in regular communities, there are right-wing Christians whose politics are seperated from their religion. Good people, who work hard, love hard and help make America a better place.
I know that both of these people exist. I also know that Pat Robertson exists, and John Dobson exists…also, that modern biology can recognize a difference in the genes of a gay man and a straight man. I know that embryonic stem cells hold much more promise than adult stem cells, and can possibly further the life spans of our grandchildren.
Abortion is legal in America, like it is in just about every modern society on earth. The places where it is illegal, more women die from illegal abortions, and more abortions in total end up taking place.
Dinosaur bones have been found all over the planet, and they did exist, well before 5000 years ago (as some evangelicals insist was the year that life on earth began, adam and eve).
I used to be an evangelical Christian, and now that I’m older, with some lucid adult years under my belt, it’s pretty obvious to me that the loudest religious voices in politics are the ones making the most money.
They’ll make more money as long as they halt human progress in this time and place.
Abstinance handed from a foreigner to an African can’t hold a candle to a condom handed from a foreigner to an African. Bush and the religious right disagrees with that fact, so progress is halted.
Ideology trumps logic and facts. That can’t happen! If an evangelical could have figured out how to make more money during Kennedy’s presidency, the moon mission would have been poo-poo’d…something like, “trying to leave the atmosphere that God provided us is playing with nature”
Glad to hear you say that some Evangelicals are good people Chris !! You will admit ( I am sure ) that there ARE Leftists who incite anti-Christian prejudice will you not??
Paul:
What would yoou consider an example of anti-christian prejudice?
From what I have seen the Christian complaints are very similar to the complaints of the muslims. They want the rest of the world to bend to their rules. The cartoon flap is completely about this. The Muslims want everyone to obey their rule regarding pictures of the prophet. I would argue that free-speech is more important than the feeling of religious people.
BTW
I know several evangelicals and they are nice people, without a doubt christianity gives them a framework to be good people. In fact most religions seem to encourage people to be good. The problem seems to start when any religion trys to tell non-believers how to live. Like the Pharmacy thing on the other thread.
Why can’t religous types just, say more room in heaven for me, and let the rest of us live our lives?
The problem seems to start when any religion trys to tell non-believers how to live. Like the Pharmacy thing on the other thread.
Great point. It is equally a problem to tell businesses what products they have to sell. The government shouldn’t be forcing walmart to sell products it doesn’t want to. Where is all the outrage about big profits for drug companies? Less marketing expense now that Walmart is forced to sell a monopoly product(one company has the patent).
If Wal-mart is going to claim to offer pharmacuticals then they need to adher to the rules and regs that go with that product. Lets say their was a medication for Sickle cell Anemia, do you think that Wal-mart should be allowed not to carry that becuase it brings in the wrong crowd? What about Anti-virals for AIDS patients, should Wal-mart be allowed to withhold that drug for some people.
If Wal-mart wants the profits that go with being in the Pharmacy business then they also have to take the responsibility, which is to fill prescriptions as the Doctor ordered.
If Wal-mart is going to claim to offer pharmacuticals then they need to adher to the rules and regs that go with that product.
The law says they have to provide “commonly prescribed medicines.” Since the abortion pill isn’t commonly prescribed, WalMart isn’t required to sell it, unless, of course, a radical minority of activists hijacks the legal system. That is what happened. WalMart will win in court and I hope they challenge this injustice.
Lets say their was a medication for Sickle cell Anemia, do you think that Wal-mart should be allowed not to carry that becuase it brings in the wrong crowd?
This medicine isn’t designed to kill.
What about Anti-virals for AIDS patients, should Wal-mart be allowed to withhold that drug for some people.
Again, this medicine saves lives, doesn’t take them.
Right:
You don’t seem to think that rape victims should be given the morning after pill? On that I think you are wrong.
All of this contreversy could be avoided if the morning after pill was available over the counter as it should be. Then we would not have to worry about moralizing pharmacists.
I was at a Christmas gathering where my friends (liberals all) made light of evangelicals, but said nary a negative word about fanatic Muslims! That smacks of a double standard in my book.
But Paul – there are millions of evangelicals here in America, yet how often in each of our daily lives are we confronted with a fanatic Muslim in the supermarket?
You don’t seem to think that rape victims should be given the morning after pill? On that I think you are wrong.
I smell fear. This is the statement I was waiting for, where you pick the smallest group of people who have a legitimate need in an attempt to apply their need to the population.
Rape victems definitely need this pill and it is dispensed to them at the hospital after the rape kit is done. For what ever reason, if they don’t go to the hospital there are a hundred actual pharmacies in the area to fill the perscription.
CVS, Costco, Rite-Aid, grocery store pharmacies, stand alone pharmacies, Dr. Office samples, this medicine is available everywhere. There is no need to illegally force Wal Mart to carry it too.
Chris I have not encountered a fanatic evangelical in the super market.
Me either. In a Supermarket … Really?
Pharmacies are not really controlled by the free market. If they were I am sure plenty of them would love to sell steroids to teenage bodybuilders. My point is that what a pharmacy can cannot sell is strictly controlled and who can be a pharmacist is also controlled by government regulation. If their were not barriers to becoming a pharmacist then you would be right that it is up to the business to sell what is profitable. But because pharmacies are in fact controlled by the government they need to abide by the regulations.
Right:
Even you concede that in some cases pharmacies do need to dispense these pills, the jugdement as to when should be left up to a trained Doctor, not a pharmacist.
BTW that fear you smell is probably just 4 day old diapers, you really should empty that that diaper pail.
Obviously not in the supermarket…I was just pointing out that we’re not running into ignorant, batshit crazy Muslims in our hometowns whenever we leave our houses.
Ther were some “ignorant,batshit Muslims” that did some damage in NYC a few years back Chris if you recall!
True, but I was responding to your point about how more negativity is out there with evangelicals than muslims…I think that’s a sign of there being more of one than the other in US communities.
I live in South Carolina and I do not see a lot of negativity towards Evangelicals here Chris. Muslims are another matter altogether, because people here equate (sadly) Muslims with terror.
Before 9/11 I equated Muslims with discipline more than anything. Those I knew in the service wouldn’t miss a prayer time, one even carried his GPS everywhere so he’d know which direction to face.
What we fail to appreciate as a society, being that church and state are seperated here in America, is that in the Middle East it’s entirely different in that Islam is the basis for their governments.
That dynamic alone equals an entirely different mindset, and unfortunately breeds intollerance.
Now, intollerance of how we live our lives here in the west and intollerance of our people occupying their land are two entirely seperate things.
From the start, Osama cited our bases in Saudi Arabia as the motivation for 9/11. This is too often ignored by the press and pundits, as the concept seems trite to us. Why would they mind a US military base on Middle East soil?
Yet we never consider the idea that if an Iraqi or Saudi military base was on our land…how that would effect our perception of them.
I’ve always looked at this from the perspective of nationalism, and it’s sacred status in both of our societies. How we can appreciate our own, yet not that of another is beyond me.