“I pledge allegience, to the flag, of the War Profiteers of America. And to the stock prices, for which it stands, one portifolio, under Armed Conflict, indivisible, with dividends and waterfront property for some.”
The Pentagon has spied on anti-war protestors as well as those who protested outside of Halliburton. Meaning of course, that our tax dollars have been spent to preserve the safety of a stock price in the name of ‘national security’. These protesters incited no violence, destroyed no property, yet were considered a threat, which prompted surveilance and investigation by the Pentagon. And for many, it’s like Jesus on Easter, the ghost of Nixon rising from the dead to reclaim the destiny that was stolen from him many years ago.
To the architechts of these anti-American acts of power run amok, today is nostalgic and vital, as absolute power was denied to them three decades ago and the chip on their shoulders has only grown heavier with each passing year. Cheney and Rumsfeld had to sit back, while their savior was torn down in the 70’s over some nonsence. Nixon spied on his political enemies, the Democrats, and America had the gaul to consider it wrong. Therefore, his disciples are hard at work to assure such sacreligious behavior is never allowed to exist in this country ever again. These people need to know their place!
So the past five years haven’t really been about freedom in Iraq or confronting terrorism. This whole charade has really been about revenge. Cheney shows his true colors when defending warrantless wiretaps, opining on how the power of the executive has been wrongly eroded, that the amount of power a President wields today is not nearly enough. And the question I ask myself is, ‘why would Nixon’s former staffer feel this way?’
It seems we have nothing better to do than try and prove what a corupt administration we have today. When I look at the issues being raised I wonder and did some fact checking but more on that later. Blaming this on revenge for Nixon? You have got to be loosing your grip Chris.
Must be a slow news day. And that is exactly how I feel about it. Maybe I am in the minority here but we will see in the upcoming elections. I am amazed at the Democratic attack tactics and stradegy. They do not make a lot of sense to me. Again the upcoming elections will reveal if I am in the majority or the minority.
The goverment has more on record about you and your actions (and mine as well) than we both probably know or want to admit. They must know about my involvement with DeMolay and ROTC and the fact that I smoked pot in High School and Collage. Oh yeah and that little foray into something back in the 80’s (until I found out they were after my wallet). And what do I say to that? “Big Whoop!” Can I possibly expalin to you how little I care? Who gives a flying you know what.
I read the article and apparently some people kept files and information on people attending some protests. And this is the big scandel in the administration of the scandles? Oh stop the presses we got front page material here! Give me a break. This ranks right up there with wheather or not Jimmy Carter is fit to be president becuase he fell down the steps of Air Fiorce One after a trip. Big deal. Sorry Chris just like the NSA so called scandal I can not get excited about this. Some jems below that show the patternt the Democrats seem to want to take for the upcoming elections. Good luck with that by the way.
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/
Hillary Clinton, with a straight face, blasted the Bush Administration saying:
“We have a culture of corruption, we have cronyism, we have incompetence. I predict to you that this administration will go down on history as one of the worst that has ever governed out country.”
The Bush Administration has a tall task ahead of it if it wants to catch the previous Administration in indictments (1 indictment of VP Assistant, Scooter Libby), convictions (0), and imprisonments(0).
For the sake of assisting the Former First Lady with her memory, here is a list of blemishes from the Clinton Culture of Corruption Years:
* Number close to the Clinton machine who have been convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes: 44
* Number of convictions during his administration: 33
* Number of indictments/misdemeanor charges: 61
* Number of imprisonments: 14
* Number of presidential impeachments: 1
* Number of independent counsel investigations: 7
* Number of congressional witnesses pleading the 5th Amendment: 72
* Number of witnesses fleeing the country to avoid testifying: 17
* Number of foreign witnesses who have declined interviews by investigative bodies: 19
The Clinton machine now holds the record for the administration with:
* The most number of convictions and guilty pleas
* The most number of cabinet members to come under criminal investigation
* The most number of witnesses to flee the country or refuse to testify
* The most number of key witnesses to die suddenly
* The greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
* The greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad.
The Bush Administration has quite a bit of catching up to do!
I’m Sick & Tired of Our Elected Representatives Comparing Our Troops to The Kmer Rouge, and Othe
http://journals.aol.com/jhwrr/MyPetPeeves/entries/1496
I’m sick & tired of hearing our elected representatives aiding and abetting the enemies of the Western World by referring to the actions taken by our troops comparing them to the Kmer Rouge, Stalinist USSR & Hitler’s Nazi Regime.
It’s NOT A PERFECT WORLD, and there are sad incidents in WAR that are hard to rationalize outside the context of WAR. However, the United States of America is fighting the MOST HUMANE WAR in History. Look at the Babylonians, the Assyrians, the Greeks & the Romans, Hitler, Stalin, & Mao, not to mention Native American Tribal Wars, South American Wars…just pick ANY OTHER WAR in History, and compare the atrosities done on the prisoners of war, and civilians. There is NO COMPARISON to the way prisoners are treated by the United States Military! There ARE bad decisions and acts done by a few, but the perpetrators are quickly brought to trial, and if found guilty, are penalized. In past wars, it was common-place for torture and murder and rape to be acceptable. Look what Japan did to the Chinese, Burmese, Indo-Chinese peoples. JAPAN NEVER FULLY PAID FOR THEIR WAR CRIMES. Their acts of inhumanity brought swift recompense from President Harry Truman, who ordered the use of NUCLEAR Weapons on 2 cities of Japan. Now the WHOLE WORLD “feels sorry” for them, but to this day they have never paid recompense to those peoples that they wantonly tortured.
The United States Military is putting its OWN PEOPLE in “harms way”, in order to protect the innocent in Iraq & Afghanistan. There has been NO WHOLESALE Reign of Terror on the civilians in Iraq or Afghanistan. Instead, the JIHADISTS & BATHISTS in Iraq are killing their own fellow muslims, so they can stay in power in that region. If we wanted to kill muslims just for the sake of killing muslims, we’d just NUKE the whole region.
Our plan for Iraq, and the approved plan for Iraq by the UN, is self determination and “free” elections. That is the goal of the vast majority of the people of Iraq.
Congress, Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Independents & Others need to tone down their accusations against American Troops, and PUT THE WAR IN ITS PROPER PERSPECTIVE. We are not practising genocide at Guantanamo! We are simply holding enemy combatants that are “men without a country”, terrorists, dangerous men that have no regard for human rights if they are in control. I suppose these same elected officials would see fit to open up the prisons of America, and free the hardened criminals back to society to rampage and kill again also!
No wonder LIBERALISM has such a foul odor to its name here in America!
Are we electing “thimble brains” to Congress? Where are the statesmen, and men of sound reason? Is it a qualification to join the Democratic Party that one MUST check in their brains at the door??? ANY REASONABLE Person has to conclude that such diatribes against the American Military are, (and SHOULD BE) political suicide!
Midterm elections may surprise the Democrats once again! THEY JUST DON’T GET IT! The Democrats have become the “POLOCK JOKE” of politics!
http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/007843.php
I invited smart anti-war commenter Chris to mirror what I’d done by compiling what he saw as the best arguments for the war. Here (unedited) is what he sent me, which I’d like to subject to the same process as my own list of antiwar points. Please comment on this post and refine this list; I’ll republish the consensus take (or better, if I can convince Chris to do that much work, ask him to do it).
– A.L.
By way of providing symmetry to Armed Liberal’s post of 12/01/05, he’s asked me to sum up the pro-war arguments as best I can.
However, I should preface this list by pointing out two things. First, in the interests of brevity, I’ve tried to keep the bullet points relatively short, and the arguments limited to what I think are reasonable points that have consistently been made by the hawkish side. This means, for example, that I haven’t included some of the “shifting the political balance to the Shiites” arguments that Jim Peterson has been making over the past couple of days – although this omission should not be taken as an indication that these arguments aren’t interesting or valid.
Second, I should point out that, just as AL’s anti-Iraq war list tended to confuse the issues of “should we be in Iraq” and “how do we win in Iraq”, this list may also confuse certain issues. For example, many people can and have made the argument that while the Iraq war itself was a just and necessary action, the Bush administration’s prosecution of the war has left much to be desired. However, for the purposes of this list, I’ve tried to compile arguments that, by and large, do not make a large distinction between Bush’s leadership and the overall Iraq strategy.
That said…
1. The attacks on September 11 proved that modern technology can act as a tremendous force multiplier, such that even a very small number of relatively unsophisticated enemies can do extraordinary damage to a modern society. By far, the most dangerous such force multipliers are Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs), which can cause catastrophic destruction without relying on large organized support structures, such as nation-states and conventional armies. Once in the hands of terrorists, WMDs would be almost impossible to keep out of a large, open, trade-oriented country such as the United States. Therefore, WMDs must be stopped at their source: namely, nation-states which have the capacity to produce WMDs, and a possible motive for selling/giving said WMDs to terrorists. The nation-states at the top of such a list would be Iraq, Iran, and North Korea, with others such as Libya and Pakistan existing in the second tier. Out of that list, Iraq was the logical best choice to take on because of the following reasons:
1a. We had been in a state of hostilities with Iraq since the end of the Gulf War.
1b. We knew that Saddam continued to hold an animus against the US and its leaders (e.g. the assassination attempt on George Bush Sr.).
1c. We knew that Iraq was not above using unconventional means of attack, as evidenced by his support for various terrorist groups.
1d. Strategically, Iraq was far easier to attack than North Korea and Iran: we believed we could attack on at least two fronts, we had experience fighting the Iraqi army, and the risk of severe blowback was far less than with, say, North Korea.
1e. The plentiful oil reserves of Iraq would both help pay for the invasion, and for the reconstruction of the country.
2. It has been the goal of the United States since WW2 to spread democracy and free markets throughout the world. Our experience thus far has shown that societies which embrace these ideals tend to prosper. However, because of an unfortunate mix of historical accident, dependence on foreign oil, realpolitk and outright cultural prejudice, the US has not only failed to promote western values in the Middle East, but has frequently supported regimes that have, in turn, actively suppressed democratic reforms. From a generational standpoint, our battle with Al Qaeda will only be won when their culture of intolerance (radical Islam) has been supplanted by a culture of tolerance (Western democracy). Again, Iraq was the logical best choice to “flip” over to western values because:
2a. Iraq is centrally located in the Arab world. A democratic, vibrant Iraq would be a far more visible example to the rest of the Middle East than, say, Afghanistan, which is relatively isolated and ethnically dissimilar from much of the rest of the Middle East.
2b. Iraq, although visibly crumbling under Saddam’s rule, still had a good deal of experience with modern technology and other trappings of modern culture. Again, compared to Afghanistan, Iraq would have much less of a distance to travel to be a true economic, cultural, and technological peer of the US and other developed countries.
2c. Iraq has a good deal of historical significance to the Muslim world: a Baghdad once more restored to its rightful place as a center of commerce and learning would be a huge blow to the insular ideals of radical Islam.
2d. A “flipped” Iraq would serve two strategic purposes: it would encourage our ideological allies (i.e. reformers) that positive change is possible, and it would frighten our enemies – neighboring countries would be discouraged from acting out, lest what happened to Saddam happen to them.
3. Simply put, the best defense is a good offense. Anti-US sentiment exists in the Middle East and will not simply go away: far better to focus it towards military forces capable of defending themselves, at a time and place of our choosing, rather than sitting back and waiting for the attacks to come to us.
4. The humanitarian case was extremely straightforward: Saddam was a tyrant who was harming his people, and the US-led sanctions were further penalizing the innocent victims in Iraq. Freeing Iraq in 2003 would both do a great deal of good, and make up for our failure to properly liberate the country in 1991.
5. Criticism of the war as “unjust” is misguided: Iraq was unquestionably guilty of several offences (firing on US fighter jets, attempted assassination of political leaders, a history of aggression against its neighbors, funding Palestinian terrorists), any one of which legitimately qualified as a casus belli. The presence of WMDs is beside the point: Saddam was unquestionably evil, and Iraq is better off without him. To complain that the war was justified to the American people on the basis of WMDs and not on other reasons is like complaining that Al Capone was jailed on tax evasion charges rather than murder, etc. Either way the formal reason is less important than the fact that the bad guy is gone.
6. Criticism of the war as poorly fought is likewise misguided. Comparing the traditional aims of virtually every war ever fought (“Kill ’em all until they can’t possibly fight back, then dictate terms of surrender”) vs. the goals of the US in Iraq (“Disable the command and control structure while taking great care not to harm civilians, destroy important infrastructure, or look particularly bad to the world media”) indicates that by any reasonable standard, the Iraq war was a smashing success.
7. Current political, military, and logistical difficulties in Iraq are laughably light compared to what the US has had to deal with historically (say, in WW2). By far the greatest threat to the rebuilding enterprise is not internal or foreign insurgents or hostile governments (Iran and Syria), but a loss of political will here in the US. That being the case, the anti-war left and mainstream media have not been helpful in the slightest.
8. The Iraq war has freed the United States from outdated organizations that had essentially become antagonistic to US interests, such as the United Nations. By invading Iraq with the help of truly loyal allies, we have reaffirmed our national sovereignty and our right of self-defense. We have likewise reminded the world that nations are powerful because of their current vitality, and not because of the diplomatic respect historically accorded to them (i.e. France).
9. The attacks of 9/11 represented not merely a few malcontents, but were instead a harbinger of a far greater clash of civilizations that could eventually build to a conflict on the scale of WW2 or the Cold War. That being the case, if a successfully fought war in Iraq can forestall or entirely prevent such a conflagration, then the Iraq war should be embraced as the lesser of two evils by far, even taking the war’s occasionally inept prosecution into account.
Beyond that, I think the arguments tend to get fairly marginal. I hope the pro-war folks find this a relatively accurate expression of their beliefs, and I welcome comments and corrections.
Comentary: I have hard time with number 8 on this one. What that has to do with anything is beyond me and has nothing to do with why we went into Iraq.
Clinton machine = what?
Ambiguity is a must I suppose. Look, Frodo…these Republicans can’t have it both ways. They get elected on the idea that they’ll cut spending and reduce the size of government, get government out of our business, then end up spending our money in the exact opposite way.
Halliburton has plenty of it’s own money to hire private dicks to follow around protestors. We’ve got a war on terror to fight. Don’t pretend that this is acceptable.
Certainly the Republicans (I thought you were talking about Bush here?)are not without fault, just see the Abramof scandal. But everything that is wrong is not Bush’s fault either. It is you who can not have it both ways. Iraq, 9-11, hurricanes and mine disasters are not all Bush’s or his adminisrtations fault.
Certainly this adminstration is not without its mistakes but corupt? Come on Chris. We have a war to fight is right. Halliburtan is an issue to discuss and we shall in another thread perhaps but time is limited. I was here to call you out on the claims you made about Bush. Lets compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. What do the facts really say. Lets not rely on what the MSM and DNC choose to be in the headlines. Tell me for real Chirs if Whitewater or the Monks fund raising had happened in an Republican administration would the MSM have covered it? I think so and I think if you are honest with yourself you will see it to.
Is this acceptable? Should I pretend it is acceptable? I look at these facts and say yes it is. Right on Bush!
The military isn’t broken. Unlike after Vietnam when the Russians, Iranians, Cambodians, and Nicaraguans all soon tried to press their luck at our expense, most of our adversaries don’t believe the U.S. military is losing in Iraq, much less that it is wise now to take it on. Instead, the general impression is that our veteran and battle-hardened forces are even more lethal than was true of the 1990s — and engaging successfully in an almost impossible war.
Nor are we creating new hordes of terrorists in Iraq — as if a young male Middle Eastern fundamentalist first hates the United States only on news that it is in Iraq crafting a new Marshall Plan of $87 billion and offering a long-oppressed people democracy after taking out Saddam Hussein. Even al Jazeera cannot turn truth into untruth forever.
Instead, the apprentice jihadist is trying to win his certification as master terrorist by trying his luck against the U.S. Marines abroad rather than on another World Trade Center at home — and failing quite unlike September 11.
I am proud of America and what it is doing. Are you Chris?
The italicized analysis is fantasy. How does one make the distinction between southeast asians killing our people and Iraqis? Oh, one happened 30 years ago, so it’s alright to talk about that realistically, but surely not the fight we’re currently in. How evolved we’ve become…
Bush hasn’t gotten it nearly as bad as Clinton did during the Lewinski scandal – and in terms of policy decisions, Bush has a good lead on him when it comes to policy blunders.
Frodo, a federal prosecutor has been investigating the White House for over a year, and hasn’t spent much over a million…already has an indictment. Ken Star’s investigations cost over a hundred million and turned up what?
If you want to wine about Clinton blow jobs investigation have at it. Not my point at all. Fantasy or fact? The terrorists are fighting in Iraq against the best army in the world. They have had no attacks on US turff to date despite several attempts to do so. Yup sounds like a blown policy to me.
What are the blunders Chris? We have disposed of 2 hostel regiemes in Afganistan and Iraq. Osama and friends are not functioning very well if at all. The training grounds are gone in Afganistan and Iraq’s are feeling very good about the future. The war will be long I am not kidding myself about that. There is work to be done yet. But it is getting done.
We have wagged 2 small battles and done it with technoplogy that has limited not only our casualties a but those of the innocent civilians. The cost has been high as any loss of life is not taken lightly.
The effects in the Arab world are starting to become revealed. Lybia stopped its WMD program. Elections, free ones even, in Eygpt. Lebanon pulled out of Syria. Elections in Iraq and Afganstan are putting pressure on the Arab world for reform. Do we see the results? Is the Bush policy really failed?
The Iraq’a and Afghan people do not think so:
http://instapundit.com/archives/028185.php
“APPARENTLY, BEING CRUSHED UNDER THE IRON HEEL of Chimpy McHitlerburton’s evil empire isn’t so bad:
Iraqis and Afghans are the among most optimistic people in the world when it comes to their economic future, a new survey for the BBC suggests. . . .
In Afghanistan, 70% say their own circumstances are improving, and 57% believe that the country overall is on the way up.
In Iraq, 65% believe their personal life is getting better, and 56% are upbeat about the country’s economy.
Go figure.”
I wonder if the American media will bother to report this. Nahhh it is not anti Chimpy McHitlerburton wenough to get the press.
Link to article here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4641396.stm
“The terrorists are fighting in Iraq against the best army in the world.”
The IRAQIS are fighting against the best army in the world. What do you think? That every Islamic terrorist on the planet has flocked to Iraq? What kind of logic is this!?!? Ask the folks in London and Madrid whether the war in Iraq is making the world safer!
“The effects in the Arab world are starting to become revealed. Lybia stopped its WMD program. Elections, free ones even, in Eygpt. Lebanon pulled out of Syria. Elections in Iraq and Afganstan are putting pressure on the Arab world for reform. Do we see the results? Is the Bush policy really failed?”
I notice you mention nothing of Iran. And how knowledgable are you on the Eygptian government? You consider what happened there a ‘free election’? The Wall Street Journal and perhaps every free press outlet in the region would disagree with you.
Yea…the middle east is a GREAT place to live! I’m suprised there aren’t more Americans moving over there to live…get real!
Sorry about the Anoymous post. It was not intended.
The polling data, which you seem to be obsessed with here in the US, says very different things about the Iraq’s fighting us. They are kind of happy we are there and glad for the opertunity. Oh wait you only read the MSM newspapers and watch TV news. How could I be so stupid. No wonder you think that way. No media bias I forgot. Well reality says somnething different. The difference between the IRaq’s fighting us is that they are not. The Insurgents are. A band of people who were under Sadam and in Power during his regeime are fighting. Now the latest is they are in turn fighting against the Forigen terrorists.
Too bad the MSM and Democrats do not have as much hope about the future as the Afghans and Iraqs do.
Do you honestly and really know what is going on over there? Do you really?
The changes in the Arab world are not going to happen overnight, weather a Democrat gets elected or not. We are trying to change 1000’s of years of culture here. But it has started. The pro democracy marches in different Arab worlds are only the begining as they watch the new Democracies take shape. Most comunnities are better off in Iraq right now. And you are right I would not want to live there as I am spoiled. I live the USA and take for granted everything the Iraq’s are just begining to learn about. I am proud we making a difference.
Again the polls say different they are glad we are there and Sadam is gone.